tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post115467394983118763..comments2023-12-06T01:41:01.494-07:00Comments on Mo Betta META - A Kewl Sleeper Cell of Serial Blog Wreckers: The "privileged"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154809496196062032006-08-05T14:24:00.000-06:002006-08-05T14:24:00.000-06:00I dunno, is it still meta if you all get this phil...<I>I dunno, is it still meta if you all get this philosophical? ;)</I><BR/><BR/>META about Mo Betta Meta meta to make it Mo Betta :)<BR/><BR/>What's your vision, spidey?catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154760911762199672006-08-05T00:55:00.000-06:002006-08-05T00:55:00.000-06:00I dunno, is it still meta if you all get this phil...I dunno, is it still meta if you all get this philosophical? ;)spiderleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324410088693600557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154758448362966742006-08-05T00:14:00.000-06:002006-08-05T00:14:00.000-06:00Monsieur,Your post reminded me about the SYFPH mon...Monsieur,<BR/>Your post reminded me about the SYFPH months at dkos once Kerry was nominated when the 11th commandment was 'Thou shalt not utter one unkind word about the candidate'. That lack of willingness to criticize and the stronger willingness by some to actually toe that line in lockstep applies in many situations once someone or something (ie. one's country) becomes a symbol for one's deepest longings - even when that symbol cannot guarantee the personal security that might come with what one defines as 'success'.<BR/><BR/>There's definitely something to be said for not living for one's desires and actually facing each moment's reality. But, we are human, after all. When you pin your hopes and dreams on something you can't control (such as the symbol of 'country' that is affected by so many realities on a daily basis) or you hold on to some conceived notion of glory days past that you only know through sanitized history books and you cling to that as if it defines who <I>you</I> are, there can't be any personal satisfaction on a long-term basis. <BR/><BR/>It's looking outward for what must be found within.catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154734441418385172006-08-04T17:34:00.000-06:002006-08-04T17:34:00.000-06:00And second supersoling on the Sanctuary diaryAnd second supersoling on the Sanctuary diarydovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00163336118223815828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154734365649671602006-08-04T17:32:00.000-06:002006-08-04T17:32:00.000-06:00I'm short of brain cells myself tonight (that's wh...I'm short of brain cells myself tonight (that's why I was valiantly sticking to that line ;) ) <BR/><BR/>I think you're right Nanette, that some of those visceral responses weren't necessarily terribly visceral: I think the section James links to probably is an atttempt to claim that visceral response though (or claim that that's the response which one should have).dovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00163336118223815828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154734223863994972006-08-04T17:30:00.000-06:002006-08-04T17:30:00.000-06:00It's here.I'd asked Boo to delete the rest, but he...It's <A HREF="http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=9891" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>I'd asked Boo to delete the rest, but he declined....supersolinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333453162319754933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154734032569513452006-08-04T17:27:00.000-06:002006-08-04T17:27:00.000-06:00I deleted it from BT when I bailed from there the ...I deleted it from BT when I bailed from there the first time a couple of weeks ago. It's still at MLW though. You need a link?supersolinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333453162319754933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154733480454074212006-08-04T17:18:00.000-06:002006-08-04T17:18:00.000-06:00Nanette,I just read your diary at BT.You....are an...Nanette,<BR/>I just read your diary at BT.<BR/>You....are an amazing writer and expresser of what is...I'm a little speechless.<BR/><BR/>Thank yousupersolinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333453162319754933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154727504654717322006-08-04T15:38:00.000-06:002006-08-04T15:38:00.000-06:00:) dove. I'm just very tired today so my brain cel...:) dove. I'm just very tired today so my brain cells are a bit slow, but I think I get what you're saying.catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154725386070265452006-08-04T15:03:00.000-06:002006-08-04T15:03:00.000-06:00The funny thing to me was that I understand the ca...The funny thing to me was that I understand the capacity to reflect on social information in the process of forming a perception as universal - all of us can and do use that capacity, given of course sufficient time and assuming we don't have a gazillion things on our minds at the time. That capacity is not limited to humanity's blue-bloods. Equally amusing to me is the fact that in a blogging environment, some sort of reflection is required to have any sort of dialogue - to limit oneself to visceral reactions seemed very self-defeating. I suppose it all depends on what kind of blog one wants. Maybe he wants a blogging environment that consists of "you're an asshole" "f*** off" "gbcw" etc. God, that would get boring in a hurry. So it goes.<BR/><BR/>I also found Booman's tendency to conflate national identity with racial and ethnic identities to be a bit odd. I know some tried to point out the distinctions to him, but that fell on deaf ears. <BR/><BR/>I guess if his take-home message was "dumb it down or dummy up" all I can say is that I don't play dat!Don Duritohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204140156288885474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154724869452098482006-08-04T14:54:00.000-06:002006-08-04T14:54:00.000-06:00;) Yep. The convolution is a sophisticated literar...;) <BR/><BR/>Yep. The convolution is a sophisticated literary device designed to reflect the revolving nature of that argument. Well that's my line anyway, and I'm sticking to it.dovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00163336118223815828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154723548965319222006-08-04T14:32:00.000-06:002006-08-04T14:32:00.000-06:00I see...I think. ;)I see...I think. ;)catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154722975711597282006-08-04T14:22:00.000-06:002006-08-04T14:22:00.000-06:00We may be at slight cross-meanings, though not nec...We may be at slight cross-meanings, though not necessarily cross-purposes. I was meaning that I thought Booman was taking 'not having a visceral reaction' as evidence of a kind of privilege that meant the views of those holding that privilege could be discounted legitimately -- hence the tautological stench, inasmuch as the non-visceral reaction is by definition privileged and illegimate on that account. But that could be my misreading -- but no, I don't think he considers himself to have that privilege and the evidence that he doesn't is, not surprisingly, his visceral reactions, which are the <I> proof </I> that he doesn't have that privilege and therefore qualifies him to speak. <BR/><BR/>It makes no sense, but neither does that position, so . . .dovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00163336118223815828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154717110556656712006-08-04T12:45:00.000-06:002006-08-04T12:45:00.000-06:00In terms of the privilege thing: I wondered whethe...<I>In terms of the privilege thing: I wondered whether part of what he was getting at was that if one was not privileged, one would not be able to reflect: one would have no alternative but to respond viscerally, from the gut, with outrage.</I><BR/><BR/>Doesn't it then follow that those who share the same privilege, such as Booman, ought <I>not</I> be having visceral reactions (because, imho, that's exactly what he's been having)? Or have I misunderstood your point?catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154716888259538132006-08-04T12:41:00.000-06:002006-08-04T12:41:00.000-06:00I think blueneck's diary about glocal exceptionali...I think blueneck's diary about <A HREF="http://www2.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/8/3/223118/3828" REL="nofollow">glocal exceptionalism</A> is a great piece although, being a Buddhist who has taught herself to see things in rather simple terms, I think singing "We are the world" might have sufficed. :)<BR/><BR/>But, for those who have not been able to break through their own attachments to outside identities such as country, race, religion etc, I think he approached the subject from a fresh and new perspective. Hopefully, it will cause some to think about why their loyalties lie where they do and what the affects of those loyalties are on a larger scale.catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154716717970607892006-08-04T12:38:00.000-06:002006-08-04T12:38:00.000-06:00There was some really strange stuff going on there...There was some really strange stuff going on there about identity. It doesn't surprise me that they had the same difficulty in comparing speech about Americans to speech about inhabitants of other countries. They inhabit the centre; foreigners the periphery ,so I think it does become an apples and oranges thing. And there's a twisted sense in which they're right that it <I> is </I> apples and oranges, at least inasmuch as I don't think there is as much of the self-reverential nationalism/patriotism in other places -- at least not in the places I've been. With the exception of the BNP and the Tories, I don't think many people over here in the U.K. identify with nation in the same way that many U.S. people do. Though I strongly suspect -- hell, I know --that at least until the 1950s a great many did. Hmm. Which is a long-winded way of saying that I wonder whether this kind of identification is a function of where one positions oneself (and obviously where one has the option of positioning oneself, because it's not all about choice) <I> vis a vis </I> empire?<BR/><BR/>In terms of the privilege thing: I wondered whether part of what he was getting at was that if one was not privileged, one would not be able to reflect: one would have no alternative but to respond viscerally, from the gut, with outrage. In other words, the mere act of reflection is itself the evidence of privilege, which introduces a certain tautological stench to the proceedings. <BR/><BR/>(Though she says, recalling a memory of rare happiness, tautology doesn't <I> always </I> stink. ;) Nevertheless for the most part however, I do think it preferable and more productive to try and think with one's head instead of one's lower intestine, but that's just me and I shall resolutely and virtuously -- please note the virtue! -- step <I> away </I> from the obvious scatological analogies)dovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00163336118223815828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154715208732338482006-08-04T12:13:00.000-06:002006-08-04T12:13:00.000-06:00I understand your confusion now, James, since you ...I understand your confusion now, James, since you reminded me of that exchange again. The idea that somehow this is a question of <I>privilege</I> is baffling, since Booman also shares the same <I>privilege</I> - that of being an American. Although, perhaps one privilege you have over him is that fact that you allow your conscience to integrate criticism more readily than perhaps he is willing or able to (?) Everyone actually has that privilege. Some just choose not to use it.catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154706248137889862006-08-04T09:44:00.000-06:002006-08-04T09:44:00.000-06:00I remember that exchange. At the time I really did...I remember that exchange. <BR/><BR/>At the time I really didn't get it and I'm not sure I do at this point. It reminds me of what right wingers say of lefties actually. Or about anti-war protesters during Vietnam.<BR/><BR/>I wonder, like DTF, if it has something to do with how ingrained American nationalism or exceptionalism is ingrained in the culture and how inconcievable it would be for some Americans to realize just how the rest of the world views the country and citizens. Of course there are good parts (i.e. the Bill of Rights), but on the whole with all the coups, etc. it is just impossible to talk about America and think it's the best country ever if you are not a citizen. I personally think we're still looking for a model nation (but I digress).<BR/><BR/>It reminds me of the argument I got into with Boo over his post about Islamofascism (I REALLY HATE THAT TERM - it is so goddamn ignorant of what fascism actually means... a more correct term in my view would incorporate theocracy. Fascism suits the US gov't more than Iranian in my view). He was talking about "imposing American beliefs" and how to "secure America's national security".<BR/><BR/>So I told him how I thought the US could achieve that -- apologize. That didn't fit into his world view much I don't think. I'm probably 'privledged' for thinking that as well.<BR/><BR/>As I've said before... the sun is setting on the American Empire and a lot of US citizens are going to be in for quite a shock that they aren't so "exceptional" anymore. The scary thing is that the majority, including "progressives" will fight tooth and nail to preserve it... even when what they are preserving causes harm to themselves and so many around the world.spiderleafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324410088693600557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154675668512476992006-08-04T01:14:00.000-06:002006-08-04T01:14:00.000-06:00Apparently this.Apparently <A HREF="http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2006/7/20/14528/1654/173#173" REL="nofollow">this</A>.Don Duritohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204140156288885474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32065791.post-1154675567556223412006-08-04T01:12:00.000-06:002006-08-04T01:12:00.000-06:00What was your so-called "privileged" view that he ...What was your so-called "privileged" view that he took exception to?catniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444186590009089070noreply@blogger.com