Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Open thread

"...and shut up Zorak, because you're not gonna rain on my charade."

Note: Quote from Space Ghost Coast to Coast, Episode 37 ("Anniversary")

Bonus with video:


Paranoia will destroy ya!

89 comments:

supersoling said...

I've asked Catnip 2 questions that I want answered.
1
Is it cool with her if someone posts a picture of her and her Grand Herb from her BT birthday diary and disparages her while involving the child.
and
2
Why did she defend Armando when he was "outed" but has no problem with DD's "outing?
Simple questions really. When I get answers I'll cease posting...really...honest...maybe

Maryscott OConnor said...

Disingenuous:

Oh, scratch that. Let's call it what it really is.

Lying scumbaggitude:

TO claim that one only posted a picture with no name, knowing full well that eventually somone would identify said picture by name.

Like so:

1. Blogger posts picture...


29. marisacat - 28 March 2007

"I posted a picture with
- No name
- No moniker
and
- no law firm
I called the photo: 'Tammany Hall. Bossism.'"

2. Several comments later, after everyone has had a good laugh and made sneering, knowing comments to the effect that "we all know who he is, ha ha ha," someone finally comes right out and identifies the person in the picture by his name -- or rather, by his initials, initials by which he is well known:

52. Miss Devore - 1 February 2007

"Marisacat….shouldn’t there be an expiration date on DD’s photo? I think it’s curdling.")

VoĆ­la. The very PICture of lying scumbaggitude.

(I don't really have much of an opinion about the posting of pictures. People's real names, yes -- that is just plain wrong every time. Pictures? Meh. I can't get too worked up about it, especially when they're available on the internets.

It's the ludicrous LIES, the transparent covering of the kitty ASSES that's going on about it that's so pathetically scummy. Cowardly. Pathetic. Typical.

And we're talking about a dude for whom I have NO love whatsofuckingever.

Maryscott OConnor said...

Supersoling,

Do you honestly think you're going to get a genuine response?

Catnip has hitched her weagon to the tree stump that is Marisacat.

For whatever reason, she believes that the hypocrisy of chastising ME at MLW for making a crude remark on MLW about Mcat -- while sitting silent at Mcat while Mcat makes crude remakrs left and right about ME -- is not hypocrisy at all. That remaining silent at Mcat during those frequent crdue displays is not assenting at all, and chastising me for my SOLE crude remark is perfectly within her purview as an infrequent guest at MLW.

The logic escapes me and everyone else who has observed it, and Catnip cannot EXPLAIN it -- but she stands by it, by golly.

It is simple, really: There are two sets of standards. One for Marisacat, who gets to say and do whatever she likes, including calling me every vicious name in the book while including my son in the conversation because I'M the one who mentioned him first...

and another for me, which precludes the mention of female genitalia and cunnilingus as metaphor for kowtowing to an alpha cat bloggger, as well as -- oh, being myself, let's leave it at that. Oh, and also remember that I am never ever to be allowed to forget that for a short period of time in 2004 I was an obnoxious fool and no matter ohw many times I have apologised for it and made amends and no matter how much I have changed that behaviour, I am never to be forgiven and it is never to be forgotten, and it must always be brought up whenever I am mentioned, and I am forever more to be reviled and disparaged as the person I was during that short period in 2004, irrespective of the person I may have become in the interim.

So say they all.

catnip said...

As I told you in the other thread in which you posted your so-called GBCW comment and in which you embarassed yourself, super, I will not respond to any more of your posts. Period.

You just keep pounding away though if it makes you happy.

Once again: I owe you absolutely nothing.

As for you MSOC,

The logic escapes me and everyone else who has observed it, and Catnip cannot EXPLAIN it -- but she stands by it, by golly.

I did explain myself several times. You just didn't like the answers. That's your problem, not mine.

catnip said...

And yes, paranoia will destroy you. Get some rest.

hrh said...

Maryscott, why not forgive everyone you hate and despise so much, and find the LOVE within yourself? Make PEACE? As you admonished people when they were objecting to Armando.

hrh said...

And as for DD, you conveniently ignore the fact that for many, many months his DKos posts carried a sig line with a link to his PERSONAL BLOG. The one with HIS REAL NAME ON IT. He did this HIMSELF.

Sheesh. Talk about lying douchebaggery.

catnip said...

Oh, and also remember that I am never ever to be allowed to forget that for a short period of time in 2004 I was an obnoxious fool and no matter ohw many times I have apologised for it and made amends and no matter how much I have changed that behaviour, I am never to be forgiven and it is never to be forgotten,

I don't know what went on then and I don't care, frankly, but I do know this: you sent me an apology the other day and yet, here you are, attacking me. Just how much is an apology from you worth? I have absolutely no idea.

catnip said...

One last thing: anyone who thinks I haven't been attacked online for everything from my age to the fact that I'm a grandmother to the fact that I'm ill to the fact that I'm caucasian to the fact that I'm a buddhist to the fact that I'm female and on and on is sorely mistaken. If I post the information, I own it and I deal with the repercussions. Most of the time, I just ignore the attacks or shrug them off. That's life on the internet.

I even had someone start a blog about me because she was banned from my site. Shit happens. I didn't give her any attention and she stopped posting.

pyrrho said...

I prefer kinks fan bonding!

supersoling said...

There's one answer. I'm halfway outta here. It's okay with Catnip if someone uses a picture of her grand kid. Like I said, no principles, and definetily no morals.

MSOC,
I'm talking strictly about kids, not you or any other adult.

Catnip,
as for your hypocrisy. And I could'nt give two shits for the whining Armando and DD...
Why defend one and not the other?
How well would you have gotten on at OG&P if you were there defending Armando like you did? Even posting defenses at dKos and BT? Showing up out of nowhere in classic Catnip style, when someone or something was going meta?

You're a fucking hypocrit.

supersoling said...

...and I sure as hell hope, for your Grandaughter's sake, that no one like you ever decides to use her pictures and combine them with negative information about you.
Pathetic and indefensible.

DavidByron said...

UN advocates genital mutilation to fight AIDS even though it doesn't really work compared to eg using a condom. American influence at work?

DavidByron said...

What is "OG&P"?

supersoling said...

???????
Hypocrisy????
Anyone????

crickets, as I suspected.

Maryscott OConnor said...

Catnip, the apology was for suspending you when you'd really done nothing warranting suspension. Nothing more.

And no, I'm sorry, you have NOT answered. You keep CLAIMING to have answered, but you have not.

The QUESTION is, for the umpteenth time, what is your rationale for chastising ME for my crude insult of hrh at MLW, while remaining silent all these months as Mcat et al relentlessly made far MORE crude insults toward ME at OG&P? Not to mention spreading incredibly vicious and UNTRUE gossip about my character, my motives and my personality? TO wit: her latest gambit, speculating as to why I am posting at BMT -- to drive traffic. Why I posted the suicide note at DKos: to get attention. All these things are patently untrue. Of late, I don't give a SHIT about MLW's traffic. I really fucking don't. My ad revenue is negligible, and I don't see that ever changing, really -- so why should I give a shit about my traffic? But on and on she goes, casting aspersions on my character and my motives for every action I take online. And you, Catnip, knowing full well she's wrong, never say a word. But you were damned quick to chastise me for sullying my own rep as a "leader" with my little crude insult of hrh. And you are DAMNED quick to come to the defense of Mcat and all the other little Mcats whenever I or anyone else have any words of criticism of them.

Yeah, I see juuuust a wee bit of hypocrisy there. Like, a couple tons.


NEVER got an answer. Never.


As for the DD situation -- really? He posted a link to his blog which had his real name on it?

I stand corrected. Then this whole thing about him being outed, if that is true, is UTTER NONSENSE. I shan't say another word about it.

Now, as I remakred on BMT to Lucid, I am sorry, but for my own sanity and peace of mind, I am going to have to adopt a Do Not Engage/Do Not Acknowledge Policy as pertains to anyone who condones the horseshit that passes for dialogue at Marisacat's site. i'll be happy to speak to anyone who repudiates her lies and malicious obfuscations and behaviour, but as for anyone who participates at that blog and says NOTHING to indicate they do NOT approve -- you are Dead to Me.

Or, in the words of the Good Witch of the North...

Begone! You have no power here!

catnip said...

NEVER!

Begone! You have no power here!

Are you and BC aka henri louis taking that act on the road? You really should. It's quite hilarious.

spider said...


Begone! You have no power here!


Where is "here" exactly? Last I checked you were a guest on this blog, no? Or were you speaking for MLW with that comment?

And yes, MSOC, as many many people pointed out at the time, the link to "Milhouse's glasses" in DD's sig link went to his personal photo blog with his name on it. Yet MCat is still being villified for posting what she did. And also, if anyone other than himself 'outed' DD it was BooMan when he posted a photo of DD at some campaign fundraiser and stated it was DD, which is of course, more than MCat did. I assume you've spoken to him about respecting people's privacy as well?

As for the rest, I haven't been online so I have no idea what the hell is going on here.

catnip said...

I have no idea what the hell is going on here.

Just a plague of BEGONEings. Other than that, not much.

Maryscott OConnor said...

spider -- it's an inside joke. Nothing more. Not presuming to dictate to someone that she should begone off her own blog, don't worry.

As for the DD thing -- HELL no, I ain't gonna go around lecturing people about this shit anymore -- I do believe I've learnt my lesson where that is concerned. Don't know the facts, stay the fuck out of it -- new motto.

supersoling said...

"Other than that, not much"
Wow, now there's a perceptive comment. Not much at all, if you're looking for direct answers from Catnip.

Do you plan on ever addressing your hypocrisy Catnip? Ever? Fucking Chameleon.

Miss Devore said...

omigoddess, is David byron Reality bias?

pyrrho said...

met "her" in a club down in old soho....

ms_xeno said...

Fucking fucking fucking fucking
Fucking chameleon
Begone and go
Begone and go-oh-ohh-ohhhh !

Blogging was easy 'til you fraternized with meeeee
What a strange scene
What a strange scene...

catnip said...

I'll see your ditty and raise you this, ms x.

alohaleezy said...

Wow! There were over 200 people murdered in Iraq today. The fucking former Chief of Staff of the AG let us know today that they are all lying(of course most of us already knew that).The Senate told GWB to get the fuck out of Iraq or else and here...here this stupid fucking blog war goes on. Enough!

ms_xeno said...

The Senate told GWB to get the fuck out of Iraq or else...

Or else... they'll give him more money !!!

Color me emphatically not impressed.

catnip said...

I wonder if the Dems would fund our blog war.

ms_xeno said...

Sorry. I can't take DP money. I'm a freshly re-registered Green. Now I have to stock up on hemp socks and vegan trail mix bars.

Maryscott OConnor said...

alohaleezy,

Amen. I have laid down my arms and will fight this war no more.

As far as I am concerned, the enemy is dead and buried -- no need to fight ghosts.

DavidByron said...

omigoddess, is David byron Reality bias?

Who? What??

catnip said...

Sorry. I can't take DP money.

Why not? They're big on war funding. I doubt your Green people will equip you with body armour. (Well, they might have some crocheted body armour on hand. Who knows?)

ms_xeno said...

Well, catnip, I've never been all that big on war as it is visualized by our brilliant bipartisans here in Freedomland. I like my wars less bloody and more potentially popular, which translates into low overhead. F'rinstance, I have longed for years to wage a War On Smooth Jazz, and you don't need body armor for that. Though perhaps earplugs would not be out of keeping...

catnip said...

Oh yes. Definitely. War on Smooth Jazz - WOSJ. You have a new recruit. Sign me up! (Do I get college funding with that?)

catnip said...

As far as I am concerned, the enemy is dead and buried -- no need to fight ghosts.

"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."

lucid said...

I wonder if the Dems would fund our blog war.

um, I think they already have, no?

catnip said...

um, I think they already have, no?

Was that in the supplemental too? Darn, in between all of that pork for peanut storage and spinach, I must have missed it.

supersoling said...

ms_xeno:
"Two weeks ago, supersoling, you seemed like just an average, easygoing face around these parts. Now there is (in the words of Chekhov) a spring snapped in your brain. Disappointing to see, I gotta' say. "

If an average guy snapping a spring is all you see as disappointing, and I assume it is because that's what you choose to comment on, then I'll have to include you in the group of people that I've vastly overestimated when it comes to compassion, integrity, honesty and fairness.
But I'm no longer just disappointed. I'm disgusted.
But you all go on making little quips about it. I'm not impressed.

Catnip,
you're a fucking hypocrit and you'll never sheild yourself from it. Others who choose to remain silent about the obvious are hypocrits as well. If the lizard skin (du jour) fits, wear it.

ms_xeno said...

Au contraire, super. I have not remained silent at all. You just don't want to hear what I said, because it doesn't jibe with what you personally preach.

[shrug.] Do you plan to ever move on to a new topic, space, aftershave, whatever ? It must be clear to you by now that we heartless bitches/groundlings/guttersnipes simply don't have the same interest in throwing a protective shield around MSOC and her clan as you do. Furthermore, it's hardly our job to do so. MSOC made her own bed and now she can lie in it, and deal with the consequences as she wishes. Nobody is harassing, threatening, or otherwise infringing upon the rights of her family. Any more than she herself has done so by speaking about them herself, with no provocation or invitation from us.

What excactly are you getting from this tedious marathon of hectoring us, exactly ?

catnip got a death threat on a neighbor board earlier this week, from some armchair warrior jaggoff who doesn't like her opinions on life in Iraq. I would hardly say that she is shielding herself from criticism. So far as I can tell, the only person in the room at the moment calling for selective shielding of bloggers is you.

ms_xeno said...

catnip:

Do I get college funding with that?

No, sorry. Our funding is currently tied up between the House and Senate as the differences in the bills are brokered by Tauscher and Lieberman. However we do have this free totebag, plus a nice Oscar Peterson box set, available to red-blooded Canucks who wish to join our Coalition of the Willing...

supersoling said...

You can dress it up however you like. I'm sheilding no one, but children. That should be clear enough to you. Apparently not though. This 'she did it first' cop out is only that, a cop out. But you go on defending the use of children as weapons. It speaks volumes all on it's own.

I've been around a long time and I've seen a lot of questionable shit, and concluded that adults can stand on their own, but the "spring" that snapped in this easy going brain snapped for a reason. You choose to portray it as something it's not. And I'm perfectly content to occupy the ground that defends children and calls out hypocrisy. Even alone. That too speaks volumes.

ms_xeno said...

I think you greatly exaggerate the harm done by somebody pointing out what MSOC herself already pointed out numerous times: She spends a lot of time on the internet, and she talks about her family and her children on the internet. Nobody forces her to do so, and nobody is compelled to keep quiet on issues that she herself does not keep quiet about.

MSOC's family is her own, but the concept of "family" and the right to comment on families and how they do or don't work ? Those she does not own, any more than you or I do, super. You cannot provide more shielding to a blogger's family than he or she wishes to provide him/herself. You cannot play rescuer to somebody who lacks the restraint and perspective to see that their traps are of their own making, and it is their own job to get out of them.

I have no idea what you're getting from this, but it must be one hell of a buzz, given your doglike tenacity in keeping your teeth sunk for so long into such a poor little scrap of old meat. One or two throwaway comments by Mcat about how MSOC's character online just may be consistent with her character offline and you go ballistic. You carry on as if this were bona fide abuse of minors, which does nothing to my mind but trivialize genuine verbal and physical abuse.

I have been on boards where mothers of all stripes were viciously excorciated (usually, but not always, by sexist men) for their supposedly terrible choices vis-a-vis motherhood. (Patriarchs are the proverbial hammers who see every woman with any self-respect as nails, so when there was a shortage of mothers around for them to abuse, they practiced on childfree women like myself.) Frankly, I don't think Mcat's remarks are in that league, and the fact that you apparently do tells me that you need to get out more. You don't have a fucking clue as to what really abusive language or really dirty pool is, and you need to just get the fuck over yourself already.

alohaleezy said...

Ms-xeno..

I never said anything about the "dems". I said the Senate. So it seems no matter who does what in the congress you won't be satisfied. Then again, how does one ever satisfy a malcontent.

I won't bother to post here anymore seeing it doesn't appear a place for grownups.

spider said...

I've met super personally, hung out with his family and I really don't care to hear a new member of this blog, ms_xeno, who I don't remember when you became a member of mobetta telling him to bugger off. I'm dead serious. Whatever his beef with catnip and MCat is, it's not a beef with THIS BLOG.

I'll delete my fucking account on this site before I let you try and silence him. Btw Ms_Xeno, super was a founding member of this blog before he asked to have his name taken off the masthead. As a newly minted member of mobetta I thought some history might be in order.

Do I think families and children (who don't themselves blog) should not be dragged into politics, no matter who started it? Yup. I sure as hell do. And no, I'm not a fan of MSOC, and yes, I like MCat.

It's not my fight, I really don't care, but to hear ms_xeno tell it he's just as bad as Armando. And I would tell you to fuck off to your face if you said anything of the sort to me in person.

Now I walk away. Carry on everyone.

DavidByron said...

I have been on boards where mothers of all stripes were viciously excorciated

Yes; the Ms boards were terrible weren't they Ms Xeno? Nothing like a fellow feminist for ripping into a woman and needling her in the nastiest ways.

Frankly, I don't think Mcat's remarks are in that league

They are. She ought to be ashamed of herself and you ought to be too for defending her.

ms_xeno said...

spider, stop putting words in my mouth. super wants to keep his teeth dug into a stale scrap of meat like the proverbial junkyard dog ? He's a grownup. Let him deal with the fact that to one not blessed with having seen what a swell guy he is in person, he looks like a fucking fool.

I did not demand entry onto the blogroll. I was invited. You want to have me voted off ? Go for it, spider, if that's how you get your jollies. It will bug me for a few days and then I will get on with my life, both online and off.

aloha, I am not impressed with the DP and have not made any secret of that, for quite some time. If you are determined to perceive my dislike of the Party as dislike of you, it ain't my problem.

alohaleezy said...

Spidey...thanks for saying that about Super. I think I finally figured out part of the problem. Some people only read what they want to see. MS X just tried to put words in my post that I never used. Amazing.

spider said...

I don't remember the members of this blog voting or even being asked if you could join. One day you just appeared as an admin. Guess we have double standards for MSOC, eh?

Yeah, that's how I get my jollies. Like leezy said, I don't want to play in a kindergarten.

This is pathetic. And no one is putting words in your mouth. I read what you write on the screen and your meaning is quite clear.

Ductape would most certainly be shaking his head at what this site has become. This ain't mobettameta, it's high school.

ms_xeno said...

Why shouldn't there be different standards for me than for MSOC, spider ? I am not MSOC. We are entirely different people, with different practices online and different priorities.

Again, bring it up for a vote if you want. Have me thrown off, if it's so damn important to you to preserve some manner of impartiality that, so far as I can tell, was never part of the package deal.

...This is pathetic. And no one is putting words in your mouth. I read what you write on the screen and your meaning is quite clear...

Horseshit. Clear to you, perhaps. I was not a Kos regular, ever. Never posted there. I could give a rat's ass about Armando and wouldn't know him if I fell over him. So that was one remark you pulled out straight out of your ass, spider.

Some people only read what they want to see.

Pot. Kettle. Black, aloha.

You are right, though, to say that I am never satisfied with what the DP does. The whole trouble with that particular institution is that people have cut it too much slack and have watched it decay and support fascism-- and yet been satisfied with it. Maybe if there were more malcontents, things wouldn't have gone to shit in this country as badly as they have.

alohaleezy said...

You don't know anything about me. Call me whatever you want I could care less. I came here a couple of months ago because I heard it was the place to vent if one felt they had a gripe with a blog. I did. I came I vented and pretty much left for the most part.

Now it will be for good because you know what? This place doesn't accomplish anything more than venting venom. I was never a fan of Ductape but I am pretty sure this is NOT what he opened this place for.

It is one thing to have hurt feelings, disagreements with others positions or opinions but good god this is so deeply personal. I have said some pretty nasty things here about Booman and I am ashamed I ever vented here . Booman, I am sorry that I allowed myself to be sucked into the negativity here.

ms_xeno said...

aloha:

You don't know anything about me. Call me whatever you want I could care less.

[Holds up ping-pong paddle. Returns comment to its source.]

alohaleezy said...

Your comment shows your maturity level. Have a splendid day.

spider said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
supersoling said...

Thanks Spider,
though I don't feel like anyone is trying to silence me. Ignore me? Yeah.

To be fair to you and the comment you made about me not attacking this blog, I actually did say, or call Mobetta a cesspool of a blog. That's an attack I suppose. But I agree with you and Aloha that this was probably not what Ductape had in mind. But I contributed to it becoming what it is be engaging in the way I have with certain commenters and members.

Scribe's piece above is helpful.

James said...

I may be wrong about this, but I don't think that Ductape envisioned this place as a forum for personal mudslinging, but rather as a forum for speaking truth to power. I've seen too little of the latter and way too much of the former. I'm a patient man, but my patience is wearing thin. As one of the advocates for maintaining a fairly laissez-faire comments policy, I'm seriously questioning my position given the last few days.

My suggestion: if you (and I'm using that term in a very general sense) are only here to carry out some vendetta against someone else here, you are not welcome here. Leave.

hrh said...

Regarding the Mcat mention of MSOC's family: people need to go back and see what she actually SAID. This has become like the DD thing and the Armando outing thing: people invent and pass along distortions to suit their taste/agenda, and truth goes out the window.

The Washington Post was casting aspersions on MSOC's "mothering choices" before Marisacat ever said a word. But MSOC chose to pimp that article all over the place. Maybe she just didn't notice the insinuations the Wapo writer made, but I did, and many others did too. And were embarrassed and outraged on her behalf. I said at the time it was a hatchet-job.

As I read Mcat's comment, it was an allusion to the WaPo article.

What MSOC and her defenders in this case seem not to want to acknowledge is the fact that self-promotion can be used against you by your enemies. Anything used in self-promotion is fair game. You put the info out there, someone refers disparagingly to it, tough shit. You put it out there, you bear responsibility for unpleasant consequences. The same goes for "outings".

Anonymous said...

Please remove my name from the list of contibutors -- to this point, I have contributed nothing and have lost all desire to ever do so.

Thanks much~!!

brinn5etc

James said...

Done, brinn. Can't sez that I blames ya.

catnip said...

From a group email -

spidey,

Why are you posting the contents of personal e-mails?

As for the rest of this, I'm sorry, but if people are going to be eviscerated for personal attacks, that has to apply to super too. Surely you've read this thread and have seen the numerous times he's called me a hypocrite which was just a continuation from the blogger purge thread below? Is that acceptable?

As for ms xeno's presence as a contributor here, that issue should have been taken up privately by the group members who all damn well know that before MSOC asked for posting privileges here we didn't even have any kind of policy about accepting new contributors. Suddenly our new policy of accepting members by invitation and group vote has become retoractive? No one sent me that memo.

People - everybody - needs to step back here.

If you're not going to condone behaviour from one member or commenter, that should apply to all. No one has been without fault in all of this.

As for what DTF would think, he was around when we had to deal with Tracy's issues, so no one can now suddenly proclaim that this is new or what he might have done about it.

That ran its course. This will too. That's how these things go. Just stop fueling the fires.

And if anyone and I mean you super, decides to attack me for this comment, I'd suggest that you read it over twice and note where I take responsibility as well.

Let's just get on with it.

And, frankly, I think this place began descending into the pits of hell again when db was allowed to continue with his trolling rampage. It set a tone of viciousness that too many people have now picked up on. I don't know how many times it needs to be said: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

James said...

And, frankly, I think this place began descending into the pits of hell again when db was allowed to continue with his trolling rampage.

That was a mistake, and I'll own my part of the responsibility for making that mistake.

Now I'm really going to take my break.

Seriously, y'all, get it together.

catnip said...

And let me add one more glaring perception:

We've often talked about how "the other" is shunned and excluded. That usually occurs because the other is unknown and feared. What's being played out here now is exactly that. Someone familiar like super is being protected while "the other" ms xeno, who is not so well known, is being attacked.

Is that what we're about? Protecting our own? That's not the way it works for me. Erase the screen name and judge the comments if you intend to make any judgment at all.

We've worked damn hard here for months to try and understand ostracization and discrimination. Where has all of that gone? I know damn well it hasn't been lost on me. I'd suggest that people give that some thought - the larger topic of disaffiliation and our responsibility in promoting it or ending it.

This should not be about "us v them" or "my friends against your friends". That's juvenile and it's destructive. We've all been down that road. People need to stand on their own here and be judged by how they do that - not by how many friends they have backing them up when they go off the rails. That's not how this place works.

Frankly, I don't care if people throw their hands in the air and decide to leave. No one's forced to stay here. But as long as I'm here, I intend to ensure that this place stays on course and to try and bring it back when it does slide off into the ditch.

HAND.

catnip said...

super wrote:

You can dress it up however you like. I'm sheilding no one, but children. That should be clear enough to you. Apparently not though. This 'she did it first' cop out is only that, a cop out. But you go on defending the use of children as weapons. It speaks volumes all on it's own.

That accusation needs to end right now unless you have documented proof than anyone has used anyone's children as "weapons". Enough is enough.

NLinStPaul said...

Maybe I'm not really fit for political blogging, but I think that if we take the relationships out of things - we're just left with a stale debating society. And I'm not interested in that.

Which feminist originally coined the phrase "the personal is political?" For me, if we take the personal out of the political, we cease to think of one another in the light of all of our grandeur as sometimes amazingly brilliant and sometimes ridiculously ingorant human beings. We become nothing more than facts, arguments and statistics.

BUT, I have never over the last several years on the blogs, understood the rush to judge one another that seems to be so prevalent in this medium. Maybe I live in some kind of parallel universe, but this tendency does not exist in my off-line relationships. Sure, I'm probably less likely to judge supersoling negatively since I've listened to him for a long time on-line and feel like I almost know him. But I don't need to judge ms_xeno either and I wish like hell that they could stop doing it to one another and JUST LISTEN for a fucking minute.

Maybe the mess we get into on these blogs is exactly the opposite of what your are proscribing catnip. Maybe if we had better and deeper relationships, we wouldn't be so quick to judge and strike out. And maybe its that hesitancy to do it to our freinds and the fact that its more difficult to just walk away, that keeps us all more civil to each other in real life.

For example, would you really say something like this to a long-time friend:

You put your relationship with your family out there in the public sphere, so now don't blame me if I use them to attack you.

Maybe I'm a wussy in relationships - but I would NEVER do that in real life with someone who was even a mere aquaintance. Why is it ok to do it online?

Just my musings for today - for what they are worth. And please don't judge me for it - I might change my mind in a couple of hours about it all!!

catnip said...

You put your relationship with your family out there in the public sphere, so now don't blame me if I use them to attack you.

Is that a quote from someone here?

Maybe the mess we get into on these blogs is exactly the opposite of what your are proscribing catnip. Maybe if we had better and deeper relationships, we wouldn't be so quick to judge and strike out.

I don't put up with abuse from anyone IRL and that has led to distancing myself from family members and friends. I'm certainly not going to take it from anyone online either. I'm consistent in that approach. I try to address the situation and if that doesn't work because the other person refuses to listen, that's the end of the discussion. Banging my head against the wall isn't exactly my favourite hobby.

I do appreciate your perspective. I know people can and do act differently IRL than they do online. As for me, WYSIWYG, in both realities. I'm not forever beholden to anyone but myself. That may seem selfish but I've been through enough to know that if I don't take care of myself I might as well hold up the surrrender flag to life and let people walk all over me.

I developed a tough shell when I worked with some of the most intimidating people I've ever had to face - huge strapping violent 300 pound men *and women* who were active addicts and alcoholics that I had to exert a measure of control over when I worked in the shelter. They soon learned that I wasn't a doormat. If I had been, I would have been toast. So ya, I'm all for tough love because it works. I wouldn't have been able to help my clients if they didn't have any respect for me. I've also had to use it with family members and friends because I cared about them.

So I don't make any apologies for being tough or for being who I am. I don't run from what anyone says - especially when it comes in the form of bullying and bullshit like from those who say I'm "anti-women", "anti-gay", or anti-whatever minority they choose to throw at me or who choose to liken me to mass murderers, torturers, lynchers and warmongers (and yes, all of that has been thrown at me and others this past week). That's how pathetically low all of this has been reduced to.

That's their problem, not mine. If they choose to ignore the vast amount of things I've written or what they know about me personally just so they can attack me, that reflects badly on them and those who enable those types of bottom-feeding insults can just all comfort themselves with their group hugs and whatever else they want to do. I won't have any part in that and I reserve the right to call them out for it. If they can't stand the heat, they shouldn't add fuel to the fire.

I get a fucking death threat this week and the response I get from super is to "call the waaahmbulance" and then he goes on and on about how I'm the "biggest drama queen on the nets" because I posted a birthday diary last year or whenever it was (see the blogroll purge thread for all of that nonsense). So excuse me if I've lost my respect for him. As I've told him, I don't owe him anything - certainly nothing more than I owe byron which is absolutely nothing, zero, nada.

I'm tired of this bullshit that's being thrown around by people in raging hysterics, but I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. The more they post, the more foolish they look. Let them hang themselves by their words. Just don't expect me to take it. I wouldn't if they were my best friend for the last 10 years, so I certainly won't accept it from someone who doesn't even know me or who should know better based on what they do know about me.

As I've said before, they can get stuffed.

spiderleaf said...

no worries, I'm gone. I deleted my account.

You want double standards - it's cool to post details of someone's family and not to quote 1 line from an email which speaks to egalitarianism vs. elitism (sorry, any one who claims they are special because they aren't someone else and different rules need apply is so not worth my time... hello Armando, BooMan, DD, DHinMI, etc.) that doesn't identify the person other than their handle (and yeah, good on you for "grandfathering" ms_xeno Arcturus, thanks so much for checking with the group before making that statement... how, umm, paternal of you), yeah okay. And thanks for deleting my post – the very FIRST TIME AN ADMIN here had their post deleted by another admin. Good precedent, that censorship.

Whatever. Good night and good luck.

I'll catch DTF on the flipside when important issues are being discussed.

catnip said...

it's cool to post details of someone's family

Who posted details of someone's family? Link?

And thanks for deleting my post – the very FIRST TIME AN ADMIN here had their post deleted by another admin. Good precedent, that censorship.

So you think it's open season to post private e-mails here? That deletion wasn't "censorship". It was about protecting someone's privacy.

Enough of this ridiculous drama. Sheesh.

spiderleaf said...

I don't see how that quote had anything to do with privacy. What she said was in no way personal, and did not contain any personal information. what was said was to a group of us and is relevant to the discussion we are all having now about who "belongs" and who can "begone".

catnip said...

spidey,

It was in a private e-mail. If she meant it to be public, she would have said so.

ms_xeno said...

spiderleaf wrote:

...you want double standards...

Errr... no. I don't want to be penalized for what somebody else said and did, however. There's a difference.

I don't believe that anything I say to you will make a difference, spider. I did try to make my position clear. That will have to be good enough. If you have been kicked around on other blogs so much that you assume everyone you don't know well is your enemy, well, that's a pity. But I was not a perpetrator of wrongs in those other spaces. So I don't see any reason why I should have to pay the penalty for what people like Armando, Booman, MSOC and the like have done. Let's be clear about that, all right ?

Oh, and how rapidly fortunes change in cyberville, eh ? Yesterday I was being castigated for (supposedly) comparing supersoling to Armando but today I AM ARMANDO, and every other Bad Hat in cybertopia, apparently. How nice. [rolleyes]

And since it IS all about the meta here, maybe somebody should start a thread about this:

The complete and utter weakness of defending somebody who is being an asshole in cyberland with the phrase, "I know this person IRL and..." I've heard it before and I think no more of it now than I did then.

Here's why: I don't know most of the people I meet online IRL and I probably never will. Frankly, I am more than ready to believe that supersoling is a great guy in person. I'm sure that spiderleaf is a trip to hang out with IRL, too. But that's not the point here. We experience each other through this medium and this medium alone. (Usually.)

I could defend myself to spider and super and whomever else is less than thrilled with me right now by going on ad nauseum about how kind I am to animals, my skill at making piecrust, etc. But really why should any of you care, since you will probably never get to see me around my animals or come over for pie ?

P.S.-- aloha, if you're the gold standard of maturity hereabouts-- Gevalt. I'll stay immature and glad to be so, thankyouverymuch.

spiderleaf said...

you are poison. enjoy your blog.

spiderleaf said...

btw, dove has left the building as well based on the side-roll.

James said...

I can see some folks decided to weed themselves out as far as admin responsibilities go. Seems sensible enough. Groups beyond a certain number get to be unwieldy as far as arriving at sound decisions. Works for me.

ms_xeno said...

you are poison.

Well, so much for brevity being the soul of wit.

catnip said...

Beats being called a mass murderer, I guess.

ms_xeno said...

Or being cast into some exhibitionist weirdo's surrealistic-yet-leaden "erotica ?"

Merde. [shakes head]

catnip said...

No kidding. That was just...ummm...bizarre.

ms_xeno said...

catnip, I bet if I smoked enough weed it would make perfect sense. Too bad I hate smoking weed. :p

spiderleaf said...

I can see some folks decided to weed themselves out as far as admin responsibilities go.

Ah, is that why I left? Did I tell you that, or are you just making your own reality as to why I decided to say fuck off to this blog? Did Brinn say that's why she left? Or Dove?

Nope, you just put words in our mouths and divined our intent... perfectly fine if you don't want to self-reflect. And to post the mission statement and DK thread aftter that is so funny.

You abused your admin responsibilites james. and made up rules that weren't in place. This site is just as authoritarian as the BBB. what a joke.

ms_xeno said...

Well, spider. I could think of some less generous ways to depict the others disappearing suddenly, with hardly a word here. If you ask me, James was being more polite than you (singular) or the others. What is so damn polite about the sort of nasty shit you are spewing at me ? What is so damn polite about people storming off the dashboard without scarely a word (or no word) to the group, for that matter ?

I read your excuses for posting private correspondence in the public area of MBM and I'm not impressed. You conveniently assumed that such correspondence was fair game in public comments;That this was an unremarked-upon agreement. Then when you find out it's not, you start crying about "censorship" and "autoritarianism" in best guest-troll style.

Scratch away all the theatrics and what I see is somebody who threw a fit because a "nobody" like me got angry at her IRL buddy's comment. Others' milleage may vary.

ms_xeno said...

P.S.- Don't insult my intelligence by saying you'd take it lying down if somebody posted an email of yours to a public space without first obtaining your permission. I don't for a second believe that.

James said...

I guess it comes down to me wanting to assume the best as to why folks left the dashboard - if being here no longer "feels right" to someone, who am I to diss that? If those who are no longer admins wish to explain themselves later, that's cool. If not, that's cool too. When the dust settles I hope they'll still feel free to add their comments as the spirit moves them.

ms_xeno said...

So do I, James. I'm just disinclined to serve as scapegoat in the event that they don't.

James said...

Yup. There is absolutely no need to scapegoat you.

catnip said...

I can see some folks decided to weed themselves out as far as admin responsibilities go.

I didn't see that statement as being judgmental in any way. It's just a statement of fact as in "Elvis has left the building".

blueneck said...

That last exchange is a perfect example of misunderstandings that can happen on the written-words-only interface here in the sphere.

If person uses a colloquialism like "weed out", it can be construed at least three different ways that I can think of. First, usage that basically means "remove from". Second, usage implying that what was removed was a "weed" and not a pretty flower - that a bad thing has been removed. Third, the counter-culture usage of the word weed to mean smokable materials would lead one to believe that they smoked a lot of "weed" at one sitting as in "'weeded' totally out of his mind".

Funny how all three of those usages were read into the original statement, purposefully or otherwise, by different people, huh?

How's that for some Meta?

ms_xeno said...

blueneck, it was just coincidence that I mentioned "smoking weed" around the time that James was using the phrase "weeded out." At least I think it was just coincidence. [cue Twilight Zone theme]

To me the important issue is James' use of the word "themselves." That is, the people who have left made the decision to go on their own. Nobody forced them to make it. In fact, I believe that I tried very hard to accommodate Spider's wishes and got nothing for it but several volleys of venom. "Live and let live" always sounds so good in theory but in practice, everyone has to do it or the structure breaks down. I can't live in this space, so to speak, with Spider if she is so hellbent on not living with me.

James said...

I'd honestly never heard the term "weeded out" to mean stoned before. Learn something new every day.

As for spiderleaf, she left of her own accord - in my opinion in the process of having a temper tantrum because she didn't get her way. She's still complaining over at another blog. Brinn I'm pretty sure is simply way too busy. Don't know why dove left. Maybe one day she'll tell us. Or not. So it goes.

catnip said...

blueneck,

No matter how anyone writes it, the fact is that people chose to leave - "weeded themselves out". There was no judgment made about that. It was their choice which they had every right to make and did. No big deal, afaic. Life and the blog goes on.

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