Friday, March 30, 2007

For those unclear on the concept

I thought I'd repost Ductape Fatwa's inaugural post at MoBetta META as a friendly reminder regarding this blog's purpose:
Welcome to Mo Betta META!

Has that annoyingly transparent DLC/CIA/Mosaad operative just chewed your last nerve?

Are you absolutely positive that your head will explode if HappyDem08 over on Progressives for Advertising Revenue replies to one more news post about atrocities in Lebanon telling you that if you will only send Russ Feingold money that at least maybe some of them will be exterminated in a more humane manner, and that's a pretty good and progressive start, and he's a DEM?

Would you be rich if you had a dime for every time you have wanted to type HELL NO I DO NOT SUPORT THE DAMN TROOPS, when in the wake of this or that new atrocity that has somehow made it into US corporate media, you are treated to responses about a few bad apples and most of them are really helping grateful Iraqis?

Have you despaired and stopped posting at one or more places because whether you post your actual opinion or a page from the Jakarta phone book, the replies will be the same?

Do you have something you really need to say about blog behavior but you are sick and tired of threads about people dying and the fate of nations turning into METAPaLoozas?

Well, this is your place! Have at it!

Name names, post links, but remember, they can read it too.. .
It's about as close to a mission statement as I can find here. Hell, that's pretty much what I signed on for. Just sayin'.

31 comments:

James said...

On that note, I think I'll take a break from here.

Get it together.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
booman said...

I don't want to come of as a smug smartass, but I want to make a few points.

1) site administration is difficult no matter what rules you make. Getting pissed off at a moderator is understandable, but taking it to the level of demonizing them is strange.

2) comments are constantly deleted here. people are told they aren't welcome. debate is restricted. this is natural. Making it a policy to allow all speech is great in principle, but it is destructive in the end. On the other hand, any effort to restrict speech creates its own set of problems. This was reflected in the problems I had for banning Parker and the problems I had for not banning MT. I also like to point out that people tolerated Brinnainne's attacks on me and Susan and Diane101 and others, but not MT's attacks on Janet, alohaleezy, and supersoling (and others). This wasn't any more consistent than I was inconsistent. I treated both them effectively the same way. And while this crew focuses on the Tracy, there were several people that left quietly from the other side, and long before people here left. They also thought I was screwing up the moderating by not restricting speech.

3) all these problems arise whether the blogging community is run by one person, or many. It isn't inherently authoritarian, it's just a fact that authority must be exerted to settle disputes.

4) this community includes a number of people that have been banned repeatedly from other blogs. Some of those bannings were unjustified, but with these sampling of people, it's inevitable that you will see the same problems arise here that caused them to be banned elsewhere.

5) creating a site to vent about other blogs may seem like a way to keep meta off those blogs, but look how it turned out. This site became a place where truly venomous stuff was being written and encouraged about me and MSOC and others that decent people trying to do something positive. You might think we are naive or make bad choices, but we don't deserve this crap, and certainly not for silly administrative deficiencies.

6) For most of you, I never wanted to disappoint you, or piss you off. I wanted Tracy to get her life in order and be supportive to a friend in a time of stress, while also protecting my private life and answer lies and mischaracterizations about me and my motives.

7) I hope that time has shown some of you that I was correct about a lot of things that were not obvious to everyone. Certain people were just looking to stir things up and they really did have a grudge against my site and they were pretending to be concerned citizens with the best intentions. They weren't. You know who these people are now.

8) to alohaleezy...I accept your apology. I would still like it if you would correct the record in that orange thread where you made comments you later learned to be false.

9) to supersoling...I am still awaiting your apology and your revelations. If you do what I think you are going to do, I will forgive you to. It's not right what you did to me, and you know it. You gotta come clean, though, or I can't let it go.

10) to the rest of you...I'm sorry your project turned out this way. You followed the wrong people.

NLinStPaul said...

You know BooMan, it was REALLY not a good idea to jump in here right now. If my guess is accurate, your comments will do nothing to improve either your relationship with most of us, or what is happening here. It will probably just make things worse.

One thing you might think about - you seem to want to charactarize the people involved here in one of two ways:

1. Mean nasty folks with some nefarious agenda
2. Ignorant followers

And with all that has gone on here - the only person I think who fits either of these stereotypes is David Byron - who seems to fit #1 pretty well. And I didn't see him involved with ANY of the things that happened at your blog a couple of months ago.

We are all mean and nasty sometimes and we all have our moments of ignorance - you and me included. There is no "axis of blog evil" - no matter how much you want to find a place to lay all the blame.

NLinStPaul said...

Oh, and one more thing BooMan, as long as you are laying out conditions for reconciliation, I'll add mine to the list... I'm waiting for you to apologize to spiderleaf for the way you hounded her and eventually banned her - all while MT still had posting priviledges. What has been "proven" (as you like to say) is that your relationship was the worst kept "secret" on the blogoshere. If I had been in email contact with catnip - it might have been me that told her. You all but outed it yourself in the yearlykos conversations. That's how I figured it out.

So no, on that one we still disagree - and maybe always will.

Curmudgette said...

Booman said...

it's just a fact that authority must be exerted to settle disputes.


I really must take issue with this statement. Actually I think this is where every one of these community blogs runs into trouble. Authority is necessary to resolve disputes when there is money or property involved, or where there is physical danger. Not when what we're talking about is some words in the vacuum of cyberspace. Infantalizing adults involved in disagreements that can be just as easily scrolled past solves nothing. It doesn't diffuse. It frustrates. And the fights mutate.

People disagree. So what. Sometimes they verbally abuse. But the endless codependency of site administrators and enforcers, rushing to rescue people from said abuse actually disempowers the abused as much the abusers. Site owners aren't parents and site users aren't children -- except when they are and that's a totally different thing. Children should obviously be protected. That goes without saying, really.

booman said...

NL-

Sorry. I can't apologize.

I hope some people, at least, have realized why it's a bad idea to dig into people's personal lives and engage in remote psychology and conspiracy theories.

Spiderleaf was banned because she lied repeatedly, as supersoling will testify. As for why Tracy wasn't banned fast enough for your tastes, there were two reasons. In the Dear Mom thread, I gave her an ultimatum that she could not repeat her attacks and she had no more chances. That was my decision when I read her comment and I stuck with it until I could convince her to follow her daughter's advice.

But in the very same thread, a picture was posted of me and CG with the conjecture that this explained my position. And when I inquired why she did things like that, and when she developed her theory, she lied and accused me of lying.

That's all been proven now. It's been verified by the other people that were there.

And, I'm sorry, but I don't have to tolerate people that are going to poke into my private life, accuse my girlfriend of clouding my judgment, lie about it, and call me a liar. It's a bannable offense.

If you don't respect that decision, then I can't really satisfy you. I always liked you and still do, but I don't understand why you don't have sympathy for my position.

catnip said...

Oh another drama. This one starring Booman with his laundry list of demands. Here we go again.

Blog owner, heal thyself.

And since you have no problem airing out your meta stuff on your site, why don't you just keep it there? I don't see the title "Booman" at the top of this post.

NLinStPaul said...

Booman, if all you had done was express the fact that you didn't want your private life brought into it all, I would have supported you to the max.

But that's not what you did. You hounded her about how/when she knew and then accused her of lying. I'll tell you, when all that happened, I couldn't remember how/when I knew. By the time everyone had weighed in, I realized that it was as a result of the discussions about yearlykos. Again, it was no secret!!! That could never has passed as an issue by then. Whether or not it belonged in that discussion - well that's a whole other thing.

But if, in the heat of the moment, you had asked me how I knew - I probably would have tried to come up with something, perhaps too quickly. And then gotten accused by you of lying when I finally put it all together.

That's what I saw happening. What I don't understand is your need to develop a conspiracy theory involving spiderleaf and supersoling to explain it.

alohaleezy said...

Booman...let us get one thing straight. I WILL NOT apologise for my positions at orange. I NEVER called you a liar.

What I will apologise for here is my name calling and that is it. After these past weeks of reading not only here but at your site, MLW and other places, I realised how ugly that venom can be. I think it is a sad state of affairs. You banned me for false reasons so if anyone owes an apology it is you. I still want you to delete my account. All it does in keeping me on your rollcall is inflate your numbers. I still don't like the way that you treated me. You put Tracy first. You had warned her months earlier so this new warning in so called daughters diary thread is BS. You DID show favortisim for whatever reason. THAT is BS.

It takes a big person to admit they are wrong and you just cannot seem to do that Boo. That is a shame. I really do miss participating at the pond. I put two years in there. I met great friends there and in real life. THAT is very sad don't you think?

supersoling said...

If I testify can I take my orange fuckin jumpsuit off then?! WTF is the matter with you BooMan? Testify? Do what you think I'll do?!

"I don't want to come of as a smug smartass"
Didn't take you long to blow that theory out of the water.

You and I have two different versions of the right thing. I conveyed that to you. If you think that I would admit to lying, admit to LOL admitting to lying, and then throw a friend under the bus over some gossip and an email that someone sent to Catnip, someone I have no clue or proof of, espeially after this little display, then you're off the deep end.

Do whatever you gotta do BooMan, which I'm sure is another display of evidence, but I'm through dealing with you. You just blew it, big time.

Wow

alohaleezy said...

Yeah...wow!

alohaleezy said...

Booman...you really think I am going to go over and dig through some lame ass comments at orange that no one even saw except you, Tracy and CabinGirl you really have gone off the deep end. As I said, I was right there. Want to talk about apologies. How about your girlfriend sticking her nose in other peoples business. I DEMAND an apology from her and YOU. What a fucking joke. This is by far the most ridiculous thing you have ever written. Super owes you NOTHING!!

supersoling said...

That's the thing Leezy. You give the guy a little good faith gesture and he uses it to back you into some imaginary corner. Where is this corner? Man O Man. I was in a sour mood when I got home, but this has me giggling my ass off.
Thanks

spiderleaf said...

Booman, please stop obsessing over me, I've gotten over you and this jilted lover crap is getting really old.

When was the last time I was online or talked about you? Jeez, I never visit your "community" anymore and I don't post about you here. Come now, surely you aren't that hung up on me that you can find someone else to talk about.

Especially considering the fact I deleted my account at this blog and don't participate in the political blogosphere anymore.

supersoling said...

Now I'm gone from here.

Leezy, I'll be in touch.

Catnip, you're a fucking drama queen and a opportunistic hypocrit. Go fuck yourself.

Adieu

alohaleezy said...

Super...call me tomorrow morning please.

NLinStPaul said...

Spidey - If you're still here, I want to be clear that I'm the first one who brought up your name in this thread. Although I think we could probably all guess who BooMan was referring to when he talked about folks stirring up shit and having a grudge against his blog.

Booman said...

super-

just post the email (or the gist of it anyway) so we can be done with this silliness.

I don't care if you want to admit to lying or how you want to define it.

Just come out with the two basic facts.

1) you talked about it when I said you talked about it, and that you admitted that privately while denying it or staying silent about it publicly.

2) that you deliberately made up a lack of memory about something that you had a perfectly good memory about in an effort to prevent the banning of your friend.

I understand what happened and what you tried to do. But the effect of it was to make it look like I wasn't telling the truth and spiderleaf was.

You know I've talked to you and the other people were there and they have all confirmed that our relationship was discussed, and you admitted that you and spidey specifically discussed the theory that the relationship was clouding my judgment.

And you knew that all along and you knew that she was lying, and you cared more about preventing her from getting banned that you did about how it made me look.

Consider something, super.

I didn't start out with a huge attitude.

Here's what I asked her.

"can I ask you where you the got the impression that I am dating CabinGirl and why you think that is something you should share with the entire world?

I think you are fully aware of how I feel about catnip discussing my personal life without my permission. I don't understand why you do things like this."

At that point she started lying. She could have responded honestly and I would have just been annoyed.

She said she knew nothing about our relationship from July, that I was lying about talking to her on the phone (honestly, people, why on earth would i make that up) and on and on.

Well, you talked about it with her in July and you have gone all this time letting people think that she might have been telling the truth.

But, let's take a step further. Why the hell was she making such a huge issue of it in the first place?

What was catnip up to the whole time?

I'm not the one that blew it super.

You didn't mean to get in the middle of this, but you haven't been fair to me. You know it and tell me that privately. But in public you put on quite a different hat.

booman said...

spider-

My obsession with you is limited to a very narrow question and it relates to my integrity.

BooMan asks spiderleaf a question:

"can I ask you where you the got the impression that I am dating CabinGirl and why you think that is something you should share with the entire world?

I think you are fully aware of how I feel about catnip discussing my personal life without my permission. I don't understand why you do things like this."

spiderleaf responds:

"I saw her hand on your knee in the picture from DC that I linked to. Not hard to put two and two together BooMan. Kinda puts all the other things I observed the last couple of months in perspective for me, so I thought it was worth noting if she was going to attack people who have had to put up with numerous insults, taunts and plain old bullshit from Tracy the past few months."

supersoling and others have confirmed this was just a bald-faced lie.

And that was just the start of a cascade of lies and accusations that I was lying.

It's clear now, I think, what was going on. It wasn't clear to a lot of people why I reacted that way. They were much more focused on Tracy's behavior while I was distracted by your behavior, which was and remains a disgrace.

catnip said...

super-

just post the email (or the gist of it anyway) so we can be done with this silliness.


Posting private e-mails is a bannable offence at your blog Booman and it will not be tolerated here either. It will be immediately deleted.

spiderleaf said...

Booman -

Dude, you are obsessed. It's ridiculous. I said yes, I saw her hand on your knee and put two and two together. It wasn't a SECRET as everyone and their aunt has noted repeatedly since before catnip sent you an email. If you can comprehend this: I don't rely on suspicions. I knew when I saw the photo that my suspicions were true. I never spoke with you on the phone. Actually, I have no clue what your voice sounds like, although I did speak with CabinGirl as I said again and again.

What's so hard to understand about that? Why the witch hunt against someone who stood up for you and stood by you since the site started? I drove from Canada to NY to meet, not only super, but you and CG. I was excited to meet you as CookTing told you at your site. You didn't show. I told CG that sucked. Whatever you've chosen to obsess over since then is your problem, not mine. I just called bullshit when I saw the free-pass CG and you gave to Tracy. Repeatedly. After vicious attacks against super, leezy, janet, and me.

Other than an apology from you I've said my peace. You're a sad history in my life and I feel like I wasted two years on your site.

Oh, and btw, in the comments here about a month ago I did say that in hindsight I wouldn't have linked to the picture of you two, but that when I saw confirmation you two were dating I could not keep quiet.

It's an obsession and I wish you would stop and move on. I've gotten over you, please do the same courtesy to me.

Oh, and fuck you to conflate ANYTHING I said defending myself vs. the vicious and disgusting attacks Tracy laid on us. Your character and priorities speak volumes once again.

NL - yes, I recognized that, no worries, I knew who he was talking about as well.

catnip said...

What was catnip up to the whole time?

catnip was busy having a life while you were still stewing in your misguided grudges which live on forever, obviously. But hey, if being the victim makes you happy, knock yourself out. I prefer crocheting as a hobby.

catnip said...

What's so hard to understand about that?

He's never going to get it, spidey. You're wasting your time. Must be a slow news day on his blog.

booman said...

no spider-

you knew when you discussed it with supersoling and the rest of the people at the festival and you talked about whether or not it was affecting my judgment.

pyrrho said...

have not read these comments yet, but did catch up in the other thread... did read booman's comment above. You speak so finally, booman, as if it's settled now, I don't think so.

as for james' sentiments, which I understood more from the comments... this is the typical emotional attachment.

Honestly, this is the truth zone? I don't like to insult... but we're pretty blunt, right? I have fallen into the addiction zone, the caring about some net-life zone... but for a long time now I don't have that problem.

When people speak their minds and form relationships... I don't care. To me... I don't know what was exected, what IS expected, except that it's not what I'm looking for... I cannot imagine anything more important than the network of communication be kept open among citizens.

A network that does not exist cannot heal itself, so how can it be otherwise.

James said...

comments are constantly deleted here.

falso.

I've personally deleted a grand total of two comments since this blog started in August of last year. I'm willing to wager that most other MoBetta admins' experiences were similar. What gets deleted? Posts of private emails, personal info that has not previously been made public, sexually inappropriate language, and threatening language (i.e., physical violence). Otherwise, the general approach is to comments here is extremely laissez faire.

people are told they aren't welcome

verdad y falso

True only to the extent that one might find on very broad blanket statement by me earlier today in which I simply mentioned that anyone who is coming here merely to pursue a personal vendetta against others here is not welcome to be here. Those commenters are merely serving to irritate themselves and others, and in the process make asses of themselves. Their best bet is to find another forum to do that. I'll let other admins speak for themselves. I've personally never told anyone specifically that they were not welcome to be here (though I've certainly had to hold my tongue a few times). I might question why someone who clearly dislikes MoBetta META or its admins or regulars would keep coming back, just because it seems so strange to do so.

Otherwise, save the sanctimony for your own blog, Martin.

DavidByron said...

LMAO at James who just got through threatening to ban me (again) and is now pretending to have the principles that DTF set this place up for. James you are unfit to be an admin here and that's the truth of it in a nutshell. You're unfit. Same for catnip. I don't think either of you have a clue what DTF was saying.

Contra Booman, it's not so bad here (yet) censorship-wise, but that's despite your and catnip's best efforts. Basically at the moment the abusive admins like to delete comments ocassionally. It doesn't stop anyone saying what they want to, because you can just re-post any comment as often as it takes (since nobody has authority to ban). But it's petty-minded harassment all the same. Sniping at people. A little display of petty power. And you and Catnip are just the types to love that power-over thing.

Well that's no worse than flaming people I suppose. Still for the sake of the historical record I do wish these so-called admins would quit ruining the site by leaving their little "deleted by admin" vomit here and there. Just bad mouth people honestly.

The excuses about supposedly protecting somebody ELSE (who inevitably is neither consulted not informed of this "protective" service) as a mask for admin abuse is just pathetic.

James next time you want to delete someone's stuff be a man about it instead of whiney liar who pretends someone is being "sexually harassed". (You might want to look up what the term means one day btw.) Same for catnip and her trollish "concern" for the privacy of people NOT currently being attacked by Marisacat.
--------------------------------

As for BooMan coming here to offer advice on moderation, now that is funny. Blimey. Maryscott is the one who has the bad rep for never being able to drop the bone and just ignore her attackers, but you know what? She doesn't deliberately come over here and START it all off again like you just did. What the heck was that about?

You know sometimes you just can't resolve a conflict and you have to let it go. It can't be fixed.

it's just a fact that authority must be exerted to settle disputes

Uhuh. How's that little theory working out for you with the current dispute?

This site became a place where truly venomous stuff was being written and encouraged about me and MSOC

That's false. The really bad shit was all at OG&P. In fact I don't think a single thing was said here that was of any worse character than the stuff posted at either OG&P, MLW or BooMan by the respective posters at those locations. Pretty much all that happened is that *some* of the bitching moved here from there.

scribe said...

testing

scribe said...

Boooman, about the time I think you've about bottomed out with with showing yourself to have the emotional maturity of a teenager, you do something else to prove me wrong, like presuming to come over here to tell us what's wrong with THIS blog!

What I have to say here goes for you and for ALL blog "owners" who are now running all over the place whining and screaming about how they've been so maligned and mistreated, demanding apologies, and other wise stamping your petulant little feet like pissed off gradechoolers.

YOU ALL CHOSE to set yourself up as the sovereign leaders of a communnity blogs. If you were too stupid to understand that everyone who places themselves in visible leadership positions AUTOMATICALLY become walking targets, and do not possess the kills to handle this inevitability, you are not qualified to "lead" anyone anywhere, except down whatever crapper YOU fall unto yourself.

And that's exactly what you, and several other self appointed "Online Community Leaders" are doing: you are leading everyone loyal to you right down the crapper, by playing out your own personal "dramas and vendettas" on your own, and each others well traveled front pages and comment sections.

If you can't get enough "attention paid" to your own "terrible mistreatment" on your own blog, or get enough "ego stroking" on your own pages, you run around spreading out your immature rantings on other blogs.

Whatever outstanding talents you folk may possess, in your case in such astute political analysis, are thus totally overshadowed by your stunning lack of "leadership skills" and your massive ego which has you totally convinced you can do very little "wrong", ever!! And that you know and see SO much more than others can.

Real leaders? Well, you just don't see genuine leaders acting like immature teenagers, beating thier chests publically, over and over, crying "LOOK! LOOK! LOOK AT WHAT SO AND SO DID TO ME! AND I CAN PROVE IT!!"

Then, on top of THAT, presuming to present others with "sermon on the mount" type critiques on how to run THEIR BLOGS! Talk about inflated ego!

You'd be wise to stick with your political strengths, Booman, and quit exposing your lack of emotional maturity and leaderships skill for the whole internet to see, over and over and over.

ms_xeno said...

Talk about inflated ego!

No kidding, scribe. I think some of these folks ought to rediscover the joy of writing and thinking out loud for themselves first and everyone else second. Instead of feeling the withdrawal pains of declining popularity and having to (cough) share their pain with everyone else 24/7, maybe a little self-imposed solitude would give them a new and better perspective as to why most of us wanted these diaries/journals in the first place. Hint: It wasn't for mass adulation, book deals, and buckets of ad revenue. Gevalt.