Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Welcome to Mo Betta META!

Has that annoyingly transparent DLC/CIA/Mosaad operative just chewed your last nerve?

Are you absolutely positive that your head will explode if HappyDem08 over on Progressives for Advertising Revenue replies to one more news post about atrocities in Lebanon telling you that if you will only send Russ Feingold money that at least maybe some of them will be exterminated in a more humane manner, and that's a pretty good and progressive start, and he's a DEM?

Would you be rich if you had a dime for every time you have wanted to type HELL NO I DO NOT SUPORT THE DAMN TROOPS, when in the wake of this or that new atrocity that has somehow made it into US corporate media, you are treated to responses about a few bad apples and most of them are really helping grateful Iraqis?

Have you despaired and stopped posting at one or more places because whether you post your actual opinion or a page from the Jakarta phone book, the replies will be the same?

Do you have something you really need to say about blog behavior but you are sick and tired of threads about people dying and the fate of nations turning into METAPaLoozas?

Well, this is your place! Have at it!

Name names, post links, but remember, they can read it too.. .


catnip said...

It's pink!

catnip said...

I'd like to learn more about this 'purging' theory. Do you think there was a conscious coordinated effort to weed out the more liberal among us?

supersoling said...

I don't know about a purge, but Booman had a hell of a time in the Greens thread on his front page this morning. I could almost smell the smoke coming out of his ears. Even jpol told him he would vote for a Green instead of Casey. Oof!
IndyLib pressed him pretty hard too. I give Booman a lot of credit though for being willing to consistently engage with people that disagree with him. But sometimes, when he goes into that full debate mode, and it seems to be more about winning an argument than finding common ground, it's a putoff. In a big way. I could really sense his frustration this morning in that thread, and even maybe a little desperation and disappointment that his community, at least the vocal ones, aren't really jumping on the democrat majority or nothing bandwagon.

As for the purge, my instinct tells me he's not that kind of person. He's generally willing to tolerate opinions and ideals that are far from what his are. Why he allowed Tracy to go as long as he did, I don't know. It was really damaging to let it go. And I really don't care for his last comment in DJ diary about angry soldiers who don't agree with the tenor of those threads. Yeah well....Tracy was the one who set the tenor. What she did was beyond what I would call frustration or even resentment that her husband is or might be recalled. It was very manipulative in a mentally unhealthy way. The word I'm looking for is...what? Histrionic maybe? I don't know. But it shouldn't have gone on that long. Booman should have made her take a break when it was clear that she was headed toward the waterfall after beating a lot of people over the head with her paddle and then tossing it away completely. It was a shame to witness that.

catnip said...

But Casey's such a "nice" guy!

So are the vast majority of serial killers.

I think this comment by Boo said a lot:

It's a little rich for you question my commitment to these issues after the flood of words that I have written about Casey, which has no doubt cost me lots of advertising money.

He's sacrificed money (allegedly), folks. Give him a break now. (Which harkens back to his ridiculous claims that I was trolling for blog readers on his site. Excuse me, it's not like I make any money off my site so it doesn't matter if I have 50 or 5,000 readers/day - except that I'm in love with my stats. Regardless, my faithful come mainly from 2 Canadian aggregators. BT referrals aren't even on my stats radar screen).

If I felt beholden to advertisers so much that I had to curb my real opinions, I'd ditch the advertisers.

And this line in the sand that he's set that if Casey pulled a Mel Gibson (when Casey already has in the eyes of many women) then he wouldn't support him, is garbage. His disdain for third parties trumps all. Dog forbid anyone should actually vote their conscience - in a democracy! What gall some people have, I must say. Allowing principles to guide their votes? How librul of them! Darn fancy pants elitists who hate America. Don't they know that the Dems will save them all? How dare they question the party ordained by [insert diety here] to rescue America from the evil Bushites? (Which might actually be true if they had a collective fucking spine more than once a year).

Kudos to Madman, IndyLib and whoever else stood up for their principles in that thread. And kudos to Billmon as well. Not everyone enjoys wearing that itchy sheep costume. Maybe there is hope.

I have more to rant about but I hear the bathtub calling my name.

spiderleaf said...

Okay, here's why I think it was a purge.

He started with Arcturus a while ago. He has in recent months gone WAY to the centre in his posts and the stupid "american exceptionalism" crap ad nauseum.

He willfully ignored what Tracy was doing and ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED MWAC until it got to the point that he said I was an utterly contemptible person. At which point, if he wanted to have any integrity left he had to say something. He has shown much contempt for his community on many occasions, include his "I'm embarassed to be at this Clinton DLC meeting and be telling the nice party bosses to come visit my site and you guys in the diaries are talking about Armando". EMBARASSED?? That was my first definite incling that he wants the money from the Dems to flow his way. At least that's what I've heard.

I don't have the same type of respect for Boo that super has based on many things I've seen him do (or not do) since the site started.

This is the guy who tells us spoon resigned of his own volition but then accuses people of "running him off the site". So which is it? It's all bullshit doublespeak in my opinion.

And look at who posted on the site the very day after Tracy's infamous diary that she subsequently deleted. Delaware Dem. The ultimate dkos cop. The anti-choicer. With a nice little "can't orange and green get a long" diary. How transparent, at least to me what Boo was trying to do. I mean, come on, for him (and Cabin Girl) to claim they weren't on their computers that weekend and missed what was going on when CG and Boo himself both talked to me in a thread on Sat and I saw CG in the cafe. I'm not stupid.

And yes, he was getting frustrated in the Green thread because even those who are still left on the site aren't just going to toe the line for the Dems in November and he can't show the DLC that his community is an ATM just like kos. So his piece of the pie keeps getting smaller, no matter what he does.

Okay, that's my rant for the day. Outside of meeting you all I really feel like I wasted over a year on that site trying to build a community.

But then again, I'm not surprised I was expendable to him, he hasn't been too fond of me until I laid out my case as to why I thought Susan was lying about the cartoon posting. I have this problem with being blunt I suppose.

DuctapeFatwa said...

Yes, it is pink because I am a secure male and I also thought it would be a nice way to thank Miss Janet and the Code Pink people for their efforts. :)

spiderleaf, didn't most of them "purge" already, a long time ago?

And yes, it makes sense that a culture where receiving a benefit is considered an acceptable reason to continue participating in atrocities would consider advertising revenue to be more important than variety of views.

I actually think that the purges are more straightforward than the false outreach model that they were all doing for a while, I assume to preclude any "extremist fringes" from striking up any spontaneous offline activity with the American underclass.

They were just trying to prevent possible violations of the Patriot Act. :)

supersoling said...

Why are Tracy's diaries still there? That makes me wonder more and more if it was a purge. And I know I sound wishy washy on this. But if her husband's career was in as much jeapordy from DJ's diary as Booman said she was, then they would've been down by now. I'll admit that I could be way off on my judgement of his intent. But if she shows back up again then I'll know for sure. And really, the only really radical one left is Janet. Not that I was ever radical. At least in my interaction there. But I did announce from day one that I was a Green. What'll be really interesting will be if SallyCat comes back.

you didn't waste that year. None of us did. Good things were done. And maybe this can be the genesis of a better group, if smaller. And blunt is good.

dove said...

It's gloriously pink.

Catnip --
Conscious coordinated effort: I just don't know. I go back and forth. If conscious and coordinated, I don't think it worked out as expected or desired for that matter.

I think it might have begun as a fracture rather than a purge, and then as the balance of who was there and who was not began to shift, perhaps it began to move from the one to the other.
But I don't know.

If it was a purge, then I'd say that as purges go it was fairly spectacular in its incompetence.

catnip said...


It looks like whoever deleted her diaries didn't go back far enough into the archives. As for her husband's job being in jeopardy, well we all know that's bullshit so that ought to be a moot point. If it had been so, she shouldn't have even posted in the first place. She just had a tantrum because she didn't get her way and off she went - taking her toys home with her.

I understand the purging issue in the sense that lefty liberal types screw up the centrist DLC-created karma of the site by not fawning over every single Dem (besides Lieberman who is the officially designated sacrificial lamb - and what the heck are they going to do if he actually wins the primary?? Support the Republican candidate?). I have to say though that methinks Booman takes his blog a tad too seriously if he thinks it actually a) gets noticed by the DLC powers that be and/or b) has much of an impact in the whole convoluted scheme of things since practically everybody there either has their own blog, is active with real political groups in real life and/or participates in many other political internets outlets.

So, even if there is conscious purging going on, his little blog won't make a helluva lot of difference as far as the big picture goes. It's not much different in tenor than dkos, Eschaton, MyDD or any of the other blogger chums' blogs he hangs around with IRL. This whole Lieberman/Lamont echo chamber they've all created which pushes them to post comments about those two every single fucking day without exception is growing damn old. There really is no gathering place for true American lefties like those of you who've been driven away from BT.

Take a look at the new Canadian "progressive" site's welcoming mission statement:

The Next Agenda favours a political philosophy of progress toward better conditions for all Canadians. We respect the rights, opinions and practices of others. We embrace new ideas and positive change. We uphold human rights, women’s rights, reproductive rights, environmentalism, multiculturalism, universal healthcare and education.

The Next Agenda does not represent a specific political party but supports political candidates and elected representatives who demonstrate a commitment to progressive ideals. The Next Agenda is a place for sharing ideas, informed and civilized debate, and rousing the community to action. It is not a place for hateful comments, bigotry, authoritarianism or unwarranted smear campaigns.

That, imho, is what you guys need. (I'd add justice and civil rights to that mix as well).

Now, as much as I have grown to abhor scoop-like community sites and the ratings that go with them, I think a community like that would suit the majority of BT's refugees just fine. It would be a place where you could actually get somewhere without bowing before centrist assholes whose only goal in life is to elect the same old Democrats who are part of a political machine that is killing the America that you know.

Okay, I'll climb down from the podium now. You get my drift...

DuctapeFatwa said...

Separating out actual individual effort from "ghost" or "agenda" activity on the internets, whether an entire site or a persona is always something of a crapshoot.

I think one of the things a lot of us admire most about the internets is those individual efforts are possible, that any person has the ability to set up a website, a blog, even just an "account" to post on one or more sites, but it would be disingenuous to ignore the attractiveness of that facility to every entity from the "campaign" of a particular politician or political organization, to the warlords' various alphabet soupial trash heap of "agencies," overt, covert, touted and denied.

Recently there was something of a flurry of articles, both media and bloggian, regarding some of the "ghosting" or "viral" or whatever term you prefer, efforts of the "Israel lobby" to root out and nip in the bud what might have spiraled out of control into a trend that could have impacted the western taboo regarding criticism of Israel's activities, and in the last few weeks, it was so clumsily done that no one can have failed to notice the sudden appearance of "newbies," who appeared almost exclusively in discussions of the US-funded re-massacre of Qana, some following the various guidelines and talking points recommended by their respective sponsoring organizations, and others confining their posts to rather ham-handed labelling as an "anti-Semite" the author of any post that even approached criticism of the atrocity.

This may reflect nothing more than overzealous ardor on the part of individuals, or it could be some operative's idea of a good-cop-bad-cop stratergery, in either case, it seemed to me to have an almost Pentagon level of overcaution, there is no chance that after decades of indoctrination that the murder of a few more people who are not even considered by many in the west to even be people will cause any sort of sea change in "unconditional support for Israel."

Though there may have been some sincere cries from the heart of some who had some adjustment issues when confronted with even western media showing photos of so many little corpses, quick action on the part of Israel and the US, to point out that the massacre never happened, the photos were staged, and Hezbollah did it, calmed those raw nerve endings and brought the vast majority back into the fold of cognitive dissonance and - "unconditional support for Israel."

As always, reality contact bears this out: Compare the crowd in Beirut that assembled almost instantly with the crowd in Washington that did not assemble at all.

Yet we are still seeing the "Zionist virals" all over the blogs and forums, though they are clearly no longer needed, if they ever were!

So all that was to say, it is possible that BooMan Tribune, or any other blog, is indeed the spawn of this or that outside entity, or possible that it is only a reflection of a hope to become so, or merely to generate revenue.

The kos success story is viewed with envy by many site owners, not only have its founders achieved some level of recognition in the corporate propagandarena, but have also become quite the little money maker, even Democratic Underground's founder has quit his day job, though whether he has achieved his holy grail of some actual tie, covert or overt, to the Democratic Party, is not known, at least by me.

However, the DU story is also a success model in terms of the "purge" strategy, a few years ago the site boasted quite a few readers and thinkers, and their "news" forum was a very respectable resource in its own right. However, over time, by replacing the readers and thinkers with the "let's all give some support to our AWESOME DEMS" and "what do we Dems think about (insert issue here)" crowd, and possibly most importantly, introducing a large collection of "non-political" forums, where people who are just made confused or depressed by current events, and who are serene in the comfort that electing more "Dems" is going to happen, and make anything that might not look too positive right now all right, can discuss favorite authors, or games, pets, etc, have positioned DU as a much more likely candidate for having a desirable deliverable to offer to a political organization, certainly more likely than poor BT, still afflicted as it is with far too many of those readers and thinkers, and an uncomfortable percentage of posts that are either not related to the "Dems" at all, or that contain text that is outright critical of US policies, and not just as implemented by the "Repugs."

But one thing that kos, BT, and DU all have in common, that is most striking to me as a non-American: like US domestic political activity itself, all have successfully maintained that "gated community for affluent white Americans" zeitgeist - so while BT may have some catching up to do in the purging department, as someone pointed out, from the standpoint of ad revenue alone, it will be imperative that the site reflect first and foremost "support for the troops," and I imagine will become evident if it has not already, "unconditional support for Israel" - both of which are bedrocks not only of US policies, but of the "Dems!"

Nanette said...

Very pink! But I have sunglasses.

I think purge too, but not an organized, planned one so much as a passive one. I remember Ductape telling BooMan months ago, probably towards the beginning of the site, of the various problems that were going to arise as a result of money/advertising and so on.

Mind you, I can't for the life of me figure out how scoop type kos satellite sites think they are going to make money by basically being kinder, gentler, tiny bit lefter versions of kos. Like the TV stations who tried to imitate FOX by racing them to the bottom, people will just go for the real thing. They should have, instead, set themselves apart.

I don't much like scoop sites anyway, plus I am sort of anti blog lately, lol, but if someone is going to have one they might as well make the most of it. I much prefer the diaspora though.

Anyway, on the purge... what spidey said, basically. If not for Steven D (who I love puts madmam... MADMAN! on the front page, no doubt causing booman heart failure), then the front page of that site would be entirely centrist and right wing. Well except for the panda guy, who i've not seen around lately.

I think others have felt the chill too, even if they didn't know they were feeling it... you'll notice that there are few feminist diaries being written lately (so few that BooMan asked Tracy to write one). Not only policy stuff, but personal stuff. I think this is important barometer, especially for such a female population heavy site (if it still is).

You can't compel topics like that though... most of the past ones were spontaneous sharing and giving, informative, political, personal and inspiring. When is the last time you've seen one of those there? And one usually spawns more, in a welcoming environment, each building on the last one, in a welcoming environment. Has there been another since Tracy posted hers?

And it's all the more strange because it doesn't seem to be any sort of organized boycott or anything, but women (in general) don't open up about stuff like that in chilled, possibly hostile environments, even if it's not a conscious decision, which it often isn't. Militarized, centrist (right wing) environments are not conducive to those sorts of conversations.

Well, hmmm... I've wandered far afield, but anyway... purge, yep.

catnip said...

Was Chris the front page panda guy? Just wondering because he posted a screed on the fp against one of Booman's posts which was quickly disappeared not long ago.

I really need to get into this money-making game. I wonder which initialed agency I could ghost write for... ;) (I don't think there are any that would have me, since I end up criticizing everybody and their dog (except Bud) eventually).

I wrote a post today about the Qana conspiracy theorist wingnuts and I have an annoying troll on my blog who just won't give up his programmed talking points. I have PMS and he's lucky I'm non-violent! :)

I sure don't blame anyone for not providing more personal insights into their lives via diaries on the site lately - not with attacks flying from seemingly out of nowhere. It's not wise to make oneself vulnerable in such an atmosphere. It's like walking into a raunchy biker bar and standing on a table telling everyone about your dysfunctional childhood. Somewhere, in between the flying beer bottles, ashtrays, and bloody fists, you kind of get the feeling that maybe you're in the wrong place. (And no, not *all* bikers are raunchy).

Okay. Enough of that. The Lebanese child war victims desparately need immediate help. Please donate if you can. (UNICEF, Red Cross, Save the Children or whoever). Thanks.

catnip said...

Food for thought: (No, it's not Sunday yet)

"Under the influence of politicians, masses of people tend to ascribe the
responsibility for wars to those who wield power at any given time. In World War
I it was the munitions industrialists; in World War II it was the psychopathic generals who were said to be guilty. This is passing the buck.

The responsibility for wars falls solely upon the shoulders of these same masses of people, for they have all the necessary means to avert war in their own hands. In part by their apathy, in part by their passivity, and in part
actively, these same masses of people make possible the catastrophes under which
they themselves suffer more than anyone else. To stress this guilt on the part
of the masses of people, to hold them solely responsible, means to take them seriously. On the other hand, to commiserate masses of people as victims, means to treat them as small, helpless children. The former is the attitude held by genuine freedom fighters; the latter that attitude held by power-thirsty politicians." : Wilhelm Reich, The Mass Psychology of Fascism

That totally contradicts a post I just wrote about Bush on my blog. Don't tell anybody!

catnip said...

Ned Lamont's new, embarassing problem brought to you by one of the major so-called progressive bloggers.

Crickets are chirping at dkos, Eschaton, BT et al. "If we ignore it, maybe it will just go away!" (shades of the Townhouse reaction to Armstrong's problems). Not bloody likely.

Can I vent once again about the groupthink these big blog owners share? It drives me nuts. Not one independent minded one in the bunch - except maybe Billmon who I hardly read anyway.

supersoling said...

I was thinking about the anonymous comment left at Dove's place last night and how it calls us hypocrits. Then I found this in one of Tracy's archived diaries. It was in response to one of DTF's diaries:

" Once again we have a "Fuck the Troops" diary up and I can't blame anybody. I watch some of the stuff that happens and I say Fuck them too on some days.

Who's the hypocrit exactly?

Then this:

" How many more soldiers would walk away from the plane and off the tarmac and declare to fight this illegal war right here face to face with those who started it if they knew we would be there with them and fighting like hell with them?"

I thought that's what we were doing. That's what I had been doing. These statements completely blow her credibility right out of the water. When Catnip posted Tracy's comments about the Special Forces a couple of weeks back, I didn't agree with doing it. At least not in Dove's threads. But it was revealing that one who was railing against those of us who are asking the "troops" to stand down and hating her husband and the military in general, could earlier been calling the SF's dangerous and unfit.

Go figure. And to have it defended.
Booman said that he was deleting her diaries. He didn't say he was deleting some. The archives are full of her stuff. And her profile is still there. Feh

spiderleaf said...

Oh man super, how funny, we just found the same diary of hers... and I just posted it to the FP ;)

Great minds and all...

supersoling said...

that just about says it all.

So how do I become a contributor?

supersoling said...

I just checked my email and got the invitation. I can post but I can't edit yet. I don't know if that matters or not. I'm not in the contributor list either. Not sure that matters either ;o)

spiderleaf said...

I see you in the list :)

DuctapeFatwa said...

You should be able to edit your own, I think, that is what Manito I think it was, told me once when I was trying to fix where Duke put one of mine on top of his on James' and we had to wait for James to fix it.

Anyway, everybody got the same invitation so you should all be able to post and edit, let me know if it still won't let you and I will look through the blogger help and see if there is a way to email them.

catnip said...

I got my invitation. I don't know if I'll officially join yet though since I'm not sure how I could guide the discussions any differently than all of you. I'll figure it out and let you know.

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