Don't ever underestimate these fuckers. They are fucking vicious. If one of them shows up where I am in the United States I will fucking shoot them. And I'm a pacifist. I'll be in Europe in about 30 days and good luck finding me there, fuckers.by soj on Sat Feb 17th, 2007 at 10:20:31 PM ESTI don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with me and you sure don't have to like me (or Boo or anyone else). But when you take it to the "next level" and start endangering totally innocent people, that's when it goes too far. These "paparazzi" are freaking psychos.
The difference between Boo and Britney Spears is she has the BUCKS to hire bodyguards etc. Freaking loons. It's just a fucking blog you freaks!
Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian
The level of hostile paranoia in that particular response to one of Booman's front-page screeds is indeed something to behold. I have just enough paraprofessional experience in the helping professions to recognize soj's ravings for what they are: the work of someone who at this moment in time is profoundly disturbed (I'll refrain from armchair diagnoses for what I think are obvious reasons). I would say that any threat of physical violence, which is essentially what this alleged "pacifist" has done, should not be excused. Whether or not it will over at the frogpond remains to be seen.
127 comments:
No,
it's just the one's that threaten to shoot, silly.
I saw Booman's Jesus Meta diary and for the first time in weeks decided to sign in over there and respons and guess what? After being told he would never do that, I was able to sign in but not comment or post anything. Did he do that to you too Super? Do we really scare him that much?
What is being said over there is unreal. His groupies kissing his butt and telling him not to worry, that just happens when you are a big time blogger or celebrity. And ANYONE that posts here is crazy, has no life, hates Kos and now Booman. I cannot speak for anyone else but I came here because of what he did regarding MilitaryTracy period. So Boo, we know you must read here still. Think about this hard and long. You brought all this upon yourself because you may be a hell of a writer but you just cannot manage your blog.
I reco'd a couple of diaries and comments, but my commenting and posting diaries days are over, so I have no idea if my ability to post is cut off or not. I wouldn't doubt it, but I don't care either.
Sure, carry on excusing bad behavior. There's an excuse and justification for everything. Including now threatening to shoot people. Yeah, that's balanced for ya.
especially nice from anonymous posters. Super, I haven't wanted to post there either until today. Someone needs to tell those boot lickers they are way off base. Oh, never mind it is just not worth wasting a 70 degree day in Feb. about. I'm off to walk the ocean bluff.
nlinstpaul, you may be well versed but hanging out here means you don't understand the verses.
Who's threatening Booman and who the hell are you? And how does that excuse what Soj wrote?
No one is threatening BooMan or Soj, but the disinfo campaign of Anonymous Coward here would like to make it seem that way. I don't know about Soj's past or who/what might have threatended her/him, but that doesn't excuse threatening to shoot people who disagree with what she or BooMan write. And that's all it is. Disagreeing and writing about it.
Hmmm...sounds so much like the email I just received from Martin. Still sitting on the couch next to him CabinGirl?
And just what constitutes "stalking"?
I love these mature debates. As you so lovingly like to say..."neener, neener".
Try answering the question anonyass.
What is stalking?
Wow! Grow up. Has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with accusations and lies. It has to do with being a total wimp. You still haven't answered the question. What constitutes "stalking"? Writing a difference of opinion on a public blog? WTF!?
your wish is my command NL. All anon comments in this thread will now be zapped.
sucks to waste so much time and breath on your paranoid crap just to see your words disappear, don't it "anonymous".
Martin, don't you have a 'community' to dictate? Why are you wasting so much time harrassing us?
oh, and I know it is you Martin (or one of your cronies), you're coming in from Philly.
I just went back and reread the Meta Jesus fanning of the flames. It almost uses the same words as being used here. What a paranoid wimp. You are really disgracing all of those great people that helped to build that site. As I said in my email this morning...all I want is my name removed from being linked to your site. If we are all so terrible here, such a bunch of liars here why would you want our names showing up connected to you in the first place. Juvenille.
What fantasyland are you living in. I think what seperates most of us here from someone such as yourself is that we never started to "worship" BT. We are much more objective and don't neccessarily belive every word he writes. It is called difference of opinion.
I also disagree that every comment by anonyass should not be deleted. As long as it is not threatening or sexually explicate in nature. Let the public read these juvenille posts. All one has to do is compare the writing they post here with what they post elsewhere. Adults can make up their own minds unlike the groupies.
I don't know who is removing the anon posts or why but personally, I'd prefer they be left available for all to read (unless there's more to it that I am not aware of).
I'd also add to the convo that the "we" here is a very diverse group that migrated here for a variety of reasons. Far from a monolith.
You know what really gets me? Why isn't anyone challenging him over at his site? I would but the little bugger took away my posting privelages. He keeps writing meta and then expects others whether here or elsewhere not to respond? Then comes here and posts anonymously? WTF? Come on people. This guy and his troops are really out of control. He doesn't want anything but adoration at BT? This whole thing has once again been stirred up when everyone else had moved on except BT and his Army of Soj that wants to shoot people. Anyone?
Thank you, NL and Spider for removing these comments.
I'd admit that last night after reading Meta Jesus, and the very nasty accusations and comments tossed like a dirty blanket over every one of us here, I spent nearly an hour fuming and crafting a response. I am so NOT used to having my character personally attacked like that, and I wanted to fight back so badly.
Then I deleted it. Because think I am figuring something out. Flame wars and ongoing meta drama draw a lot of traffic to a site. I can't see any better reason for a blog owner to post such a lop sided "poor me" meta diary, other than to a) get a a lot of ego stroking from new members who were not even around when it all came down, and b) keep it all going even longer, thereby boosting site stats by drawing us back there to defend ourselves. In addition to the baiting by "anonymous" here on this blog.
I figure I gave plenty at that office already. Turns out it was not a very good investment at all.
Live and learn, eventually.
Great points scribe. Looking at the BT site meter there was a huge spike for two days there duting the whole MilitaryTracy berating valued posters. It dropped dramatically after that.
I do disagree that the anonymous posters comments should ALL be deleted. Only ones that threaten and are sexually charged. If we start doing that then we are no better than Dkos or BT.
I deleted the comments for two reasons. 1) they were insulting and hostile in nature, in the last few they started talking about people being obsessed and having crushes and wanting 3somes, just to cause shit and keep stroking their out of control ego. 2) It is absolutely ridiculous to allow Martin to, as leezy said, keep his site 'clean' and one-sided, and then come over here and spew bullshit accusations at everyone here anonymously. His point of view has been well represented on this site in comment thread after comment thread. This is not his personal dumping ground on anyone he has a problem with imo.
I'll stop deleting them except if they relate to me if everyone else wants to continue to induldge his pathetic game.
which, btw, the last two comments were directed at me, and I have every right not to listen to Martin's fucking bullshit anymore. He banned me, I can't respond to his pathetic shit on his site, so he does not have the privledge anymore of doing so with me here.
Spidey... We didn't say some of them didn't need to be deleted. Yes, a couple of them did. But some others should be seen because of what they say. Please don't get mad Spidey. I understand what you are saying. He did the same thing to me and just days ago he was saying how sad he was that I left BT. Go figure. He won't delete my account but he will talk innuendous there and not allow me to respond.
I'm in favor of denying space here **for anyone who is too cowardly to identify themselves,*** who clearly has no other reason for coming here but to spray noxious fumes and spread manure.
Again...point well taken. Is it possible to take that option off the table? No anon posters?
Well, I don't want to make any more unilateral decisions without the other members of this site weighing in. I did get angry at Martin/anonymous and went a bit overboard on deletion. But I did so for the reasons I stated above.
there is an option on blogger to only allow registered users to post comments, so anyone wishing to do so would have to be signed up with blogger. Unfortunately there isn't a feature just to not allow anon comments.
So... mobetta'rs weigh in at your leisure. In the meantime I will only delete comments directed at me until I hear otherwise from the group.
(leezy, I'm not mad at anyone here, just fed up with Martin's pathetic and juvenile behaviour. I can't believe I wasted so much time and energy trying to help him make a go of his site. Truly the only good part was meeting so many excellent people. But him. What a waste.)
Anonymous posts are the only ones I have a problem with. If someone, like Spiderleaf decides they want to delete a particularly insulting and freaky post that's directed at them, then that's their decision. Anything else, as long as it's attributed to a name, should be left out in plain sight.
One of the things I like about haloscan for comments is that I can block specific IPs - something I've mainly done with spammers, but have on I think one occasion used to deal with one of those creepy threatening commenters. That's not one hundred percent perfect either, but it does seem a bit better than what blogger offers for commenting.
Okay...walking away now. Sorry I allowed myself to take Martin's bait. You should see the emails we are exchanging. Wish I could post them here but I guess that is a nono in blogorama world. Over and out!
Leezy..just offering a thought.. it has helped me sometimes ( when getting hooked in again,) to pause and ask myself "Is this really how I "want" to be spending my life energy?" (Of course, it's that pesky little "pause" part that I sometimes forget, as I demonstrated quite nicely a few days ago!)
Personally I have little problem with requiring commenters to have a blogger account. I figure if someone really wants to say something here, why not jump a hoop or two to do it.
Looks like I missed out on the various missives by the anonymi. Probably not worth the bother. Just as well they were deleted.
Leezy, it's a good thing I haven't dealt with Martin via email. Wouldn't take much guff from that dude to earn a trip to my spam filters. ;-)
For the time being I've reset the comments here so that you have to be a registered user at blogger in order to comment. Hope that isn't too much of an inconvenience for the rest of y'all. If so, another admin can reset the comment feature however he/she wishes. Won't hurt my feelings in the least. Figured I'd had enough of these chickenshits.
Paz.
Funny about that site meter thing. A larger variety of people are posting at BT than before and really nice new ads. Catharsis I suppose.
Well this conversation has been almost impossible to come back to and follow with the anonymous posts missing, but I get the gist - same ole same ole (except for this new sexual angle - what's that all about? How weird.)
My opinion about deleting posts here: this place has been a free for all for anyone to rant uncensored. That works well when people actually step up to the plate and identify who they are because people then have to stand by what they've written and everyone knows who's saying what. This recent flood of anonymous comments however violates that spirit. It may indeed be time to switch over to Haloscan which offers more behind the scenes transparency for the admins so we can know where these attacks are coming from.
Ironic, isn't it? Martin whines about how threatened he feels by the so-called "paparazzi" but some of his supporters make their way over here and attack some of our members without impunity and do it while hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
As for requiring commenters to register with Blogger, that's not an effective measure of control because people could just choose to register under any name anyway.
We'll need to discuss this amongst ourselves to come up with the best way forward.
Having said that, the focus of this post ought to have been soj's comment - which is absolutely unbelievable and hysterical. Why anyone anywhere would get a free pass for that is way beyond me but we all know Martin's attitude towards these types of over the top comments. If they're supportive of him and/or his opinion, they're allowed and the commenter just gets a little slap on the wrist, which just encourages others to engage in the same kind of ridiculous rhetoric - escalating the situation.
What should you expect from someone who posts this on his front page?
Forgive me for this but Alan Dershowitz's children should be hit by a 5000 lb. bomb made by an American military-industrial corporation, sold to Israel, and misfired into his home. Then he can talk to me. I will offer my sincere condolences. Then we will get drunk and talk about relative culpability. I'm sorry Alan. You're scum. Among the people in history that would gladly bitch-slap you are Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Socrates, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., John Lewis, Nelson Mendala, Bishop Tutu, Pope John Paul II, and me. We'd all like to smack you for being a prick.
And yet he whines about people on sites like this who merely criticize him - no violent fantasies involved.
I'd say there's more than a little projection happening on his part.
(Just read your comment James. I agree with trying out the Blogger registration to see how it works. If we still have problems, we'll have to decide what to do next.)
And a reminder: don't feed the trolls.
My god, what has happened to all of us?
Remember when we were all at one site, then others grew, and it was still okay? For the most part, everything was still... Okay.
Now, there are factions among factions among factions. I don't know where all this hatred came from. People took offence at so and so and rifts grew and all of a sudden I can't tell who's on whose side anymore...
Except I know we're all supposed to be on the SAME side. This is the very definition, in terms of our attempt to grow a new way to be a political activist, or at least remain informed and engaged, of the Circular Firing Squad.
We've done the work of the enemy for them.
All of us.
I am so saddened by all of this.
I suspect one of the best things to realize is that many of us in blogtopia (y!skippy! I know!) are not on the same side, and never were. One might find some temporary alliances here and there, but not much beyond that. Anyone who is a partisan Democrat, for example, whoever thought I was simply in any of this for the sole purpose of electing Democrats will find themselves very sadly mistaken.
well, I don't see much diff between a comment by "anon" & one by a registered "chickenshit"
my own opinon about deleting is to let idjits' words speak for themselves in b&w (or whatver yr screencolors are :)
what J sd
Hi MSOC,
I agree with what James said:
whoever thought I was simply in any of this for the sole purpose of electing Democrats will find themselves very sadly mistaken.
That's where the rubber meets the road and, in kos' case, it's been obvious for a long time that he's willing to back Dems from all aspects of the spectrum - liberal to centrist to conservative (except Lieberman, of course). Focusing on "winning" is not enough. There are deep ideological divides and those discussions (witness the entire "far left" Nightprowlkitty v OPOL debate) are far from being new or over. It just seems to some that their voices are being sacrificed in the name of the Almighty Win and, as I wrote in my other piece, that's just not enough.
As for this personal shit, some people have to let it go and move on (and yes I'm talking about Martin). He keeps bringing this up and causing even more divisions. That's not exactly promoting coalition building on the broader political issues. It's just a sideshow that keeps interfering with what ought to be a strong effort to recognize differing ideologies and how they all fit in the big picture on this so-called "side".
The curtain has been lifted and people are struggling to figure out where they belong. Buying what's been sold as the best political options by places like dkos and BT is now wearing pretty damn thin. I think people are tired of giving up their values in the name of power.
One of the sad ironies of the internets is that this blog was set up primarily to remove the meta discussions from places like BT. It's regrettable that Martin has chosen to view this place as a "threat." So it goes.
I just want our country back from the fascist pigs that have taken over the White House and government.
I just want our country back from the fascist pigs
That's not where the divisions occur.
We can't avoid asking questions about 'back to where?' & there are major clefts as to the meaning of what came before, let alone what the next fascist-authoritarian state masque might look like, what we want a future to look like.
It's better to have those issues out in the open & have varying competing visions made explicit instead of pretending to be able to huddle under some pupdome as the capos hasten to batten down the tentpegs (& i'm just ramblin' here, leezy, not directed at you)
These last few years have revealed so much about the institutional sickness and maliciousness of our system and how it preys on the weak, within and without. It wasn't that long ago that you could here me saying how I wanted my country back. And even though I'm far from ignorant and/or naive of the history, there was and still is to an extent, a nostalgic sense of loss. But after witnessing what happened to New Orleans, after watching the democrats unwillingness to attack the republicans and the administration, after seeing nothing come of the power given from the midterms (not that I seriously hoped for anything), and most of all, after years on end now of seeing the apathy of Joe Shmo American...well, what's to go back to? There is no real basis on which to build in the future. The system is dirty and criminal from top to bottom. Nothing short of revolutionary change, forced change, will birth something new and better. And it looks more and more that that birth may be only possible if there is enough DNA left after the fire to plant a seed with.
I'm not surprised a bit. People think the net is here to tell people things, but it's really hear to listen to them.
types of the former type misunderstand, seek obsessively to control, and generate resentment in themselves and others.
seen it a dozen times.
-pyrrho
FYI: MSOC has a diary up at MLW about these divisions.
Hey pyrrho. Welcome to teh dark zyde once again. ;)
Oh... I also wanted to tell you pyrrho that when you first mentioned the demise of the blogosphere as we know it in the not so distant furture, I was a bit aghast at the idea. Having dissected the recent turmoil though, I think you're right. There will be something beyond what we know now, just as we all moved on from BBSs and usenet groups (well many of us anyway) to a new type of social networking platform via the internets. The trick is figuring out what that will look like. The current functionality (or dysfunctionality) of the blogosphere as it stands now just begs for a more evolved state and a more coherent way of networking.
The blogsophere is too big for its own good and the ramifications for bloggers by things like the recent blogroll purge just shows how beholden too many are to the big blogs for exposure. There's not enough room being made at the top.
The basic realities of business as opposed to some sort of "mission" model will be reflected in the new presentations.
Yup. That's what dkos 4.0 is all about, no doubt. New wrapping paper. Same old "gift".
Renee in Ohio is trying to put together a new network of independent bloggers. I applaud that effort but I think it may just get lost in the long list of other networks we already have (webrings, etc.) I like the co-op idea but I think it has to come out on a grand scale in order to pose a real challenge to those big box blogs.
One more thing on the annoying comments front: we can enable comment moderation, but that's probably more of a hassle than it's worth.
marisacat, you seem to have misunderstood me ONCE AGAIN.
I did not say let's all get together because we are supposed to be on the same side.
I simply said we ARE supposed to be on the same side.
But OBVIOUSLY we're not. It is more of a comment on my own naivete than anything else.
But I'm not shocked in the least you saw it the way you did. You have mud-coloured glasses when it comes to me.
catnip -- that wasn't the "same side" I was talking about.
I'm certainly not in this solely to elect Democrats -- jesus, I'm not in this to elect Democrats at ALL (except as an ancillary benefit (being the crucial "lesser evil" to the available choices).
The side I was talking about was the side that cares more about the issues than the fucking game.
But I turned out to be wrong about that regarding a LOT of the people I thought were on the same side as I.
It can be like herding cats. :)
I'm not sure what is going on again. I've been on and off the phone today with the action coordinator. Planning on having my ass arrested... and I'm fucking scared.
But... Booman still hasn't answered my first question a few threads back. As to why he allowed Tracy to bash me and hijack my diaries and posts. And why even though I had left without a flare up or a GBCW... he then allowed Tracy to jump right back in when I posted for the first time in a friends diary.
For me it isn't about who was dating who or any of that crap...
It's why did he allow people who didn't share his same views or his friends views to be attacked.
And why is he now distorting so much??? I never once bashed Tracy or her husband or said they were war criminals. It's all distorted Bullshit. I said that I supported Lt. Watada and the other War Resisters. I shared a conversation with a CP person on the drive back from a very grueling rally at Ft. Lewis. How a military wife flipped the fuck out on the street... no arrest of course... we others talked about it and tried to empathise... how they were just doing their jobs, trying to take care of their families but one said... even the Engineers that drove the trains to concentrations were just doing their job and had families.
Now.. I am not a protestor unless I quit paying taxes becuase how dare I support (which they turn to "ASK" people to resist.
I feel very sorry for Tracy. But she has issues and we all tried to support her with those.. but instead she lashed out at us all. Continuously.
I never engaged with her. I said several times why I wouldn't. But Booman allowed it to go on and on and on...
Now others - not just me - are hurt.
Sorry, But I've got to spend time with my kids now. Tomorrow is going to be really... fucked up....
The side I was talking about was the side that cares more about the issues than the fucking game.
The writing was on the wall about that one for a long time from the top on down with kos' focus on just winning and stating that he didn't really care about the issues (paraphrasing - there's a quote somewhere on that one). And to a lot of people winning is the issue.
That's what I was trying to write about in my "Stuck" post below. His site was never about ideology. He stated that clearly. People just chose to ignore him and his mission statement and tried to make the site into something for themselves based on issues. But when the bannings, troll ratings, bullying and blogroll purge became huge issues, the divide was obvious: thou shalt not disturb the Machine of Winning.
I know what you mean about being naive and having your bubble burst. Sometimes we want things to be more than they are and then we end up suffering in the end when the expectation doesn't meet reality. I think this has been a much needed wake up call for many people.
Here's an article for you Janet. And make sure you stay safe!
Thanks Catnip. Yep... "supporting the troops" is not at all about supporting the troops. The troops are coming home PISSED off at those magnets and what they've come home to find... multitude doing nothing to bring them hom or ignoring it altogether.
An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Hang onto that.
...people are struggling to figure out where they belong. ...
Yup.
Thanks Catnip... "Dissent is also Patriotic"...
O'Kelly the VFP from WW2 had a button that said, "Arrested for Peace". I hang on to that. An over 80 yr old man who also loved hockey (from Boston) stood with me and Marrianne on that hot, hot day on an overpass. Diabetic but in good shape. I admired him so much. People say they admire me but I don't know why really. I'm always in awe of others around me. Like O'Kelly. But he shared a few things with me while I waited with him in a shady area afterwards, while others got the car for him... things that I'll hang on to.
I just don't want anyone to get hurt. And I wish to god... my kids were so damn scared. THAT is what kills me the most. I'm sorry... this shit can be hard.
The mystery has been solved: "non-democrats" are the cause of all of Martin's problems. Case closed.
Janet-thinking of you-I haven't got the nerve up yet to do what your doing.
blessings
I've missed a bunch of meta, but I'm not going to go and try to follow it all up. All tho I did read the 'woe is me, I guess I'll go eat worms" post elsewhere...
Maryscott, while we all may be headed in the same general direction, I think people have, over time, come to the conclusion that no, we are not all on the same side. And we don't all have the same destination in mind.
(Some) women realized that at kos a couple of years ago and on into the present. Non mainstream white people learned that about kos, booman, mydd and even your site (all of which poll (or would, if they were taken at bootrib and mlw) at 98% or more white, and the rest various "other". Why do you think that is?
Leftists, those who don't believe in the political system as is... and don't believe in supporting it staying the way it is (which is basically what the BBB's are doing), also have found sometimes that their "home community" just really... isn't.
There is a huge gulf between those that want a tweak... and those that feel that what is really needed is a change. Most of the kos and kos satellite blogs - bootrib, fdl, mydd, mlw to a lesser extent, etc - and participants are tweakers. They've convinced themselves (especially the mydd'ers... good god) that, yes, they really can be THE progressive movement, even if their ranks are made up of primarily comfortably well off white males. Tweakers. A mile wide and an inch deep... because, as I mentioned to Stoller, when whatever burr is in their hide (war in iraq, Bush in white house, etc) is removed, the slightly discomforted will be comfortable again and go on with their lives.
I saw in your mlw post of this that you have a photo of a little kid and 'no war with Iran' or something... close to the text of "something that really matters" or something like that. I am anti-war. Not only anti this war, but anti all wars. HOWEVER... I will not coalesce with people and groups around being "anti-war" - well, not primarily.
I coalition with people who are pro social justice, pro environmental justice, pro human rights, pro human dignity, pro anti-racism, pro anti-imperialism and exceptionalism, and things such as this... with the knowledge that being pro these things necessitates also being anti war, and working to find and build solutions and alternatives. Changers.
The reverse isn't true, however... you can be as anti *this* or the next war as you like, and still not give a hoot about any of that other stuff. That's one place where many divisions arise, in my opinion.
Anyway, I think the divisions are perfectly fine. I believe the party operative blogs will be one vehicle (or group of vehicles) heading in one direction, following the routes they wish to go, making inroads in the party and so on and that those who have other views or goals will move in directions that they feel they need to go. And that's okay.
The rancor will fade, it always does - none should consider themselves immune to criticism however, as some seem to.
Excellent overview, Nanette, and I agree with you all the way.I've always felt like an "other" of some sort, even though my skin is white. It's just how I'm made and it's why, for most of my life, I've been more or less a loner. Now, via this medium, it has been my joy to find a lot more "others" and it isn't nearly as lonely as in here as it once was. :)
I think your comment should be a post here, nanette.
my mind is mush today on 4 hrs sleep - so I'm in what-he/she-said mode
ditto catnip, please
Thanks glo, and I know just what you mean. While being non-white is an extra added layer for me, there are still other areas of "otherness", for lack of a better term, which have little to do with color or upbringing or anything, but that little something inside. Other others - which we had a good conversation about at dove's a while back, I just remembered.
okay catnip, if you want to put it up? With maybe also msoc's comment or a link to it or something, to show what it's replying to. Mo meta!
I don't know how I did it, but I outed myself when I was trying to get signed in again. Oh well. (this is scribe.)
k...I'll get that together for you nanette. Thanks.
"I don't know how I did it, but I outed myself when I was trying to get signed in again."
I wouldn't worry too much scribe, unless you start stalking yourself and threatening to shoot if you get anywhere near yourself ;o)
I wouldn't worry too much scribe, unless you start stalking yourself and threatening to shoot if you get anywhere near yourself ;o)
lol
That is FUNNY!
You're a hoot, sup!
****new thread****
Oh Christ Janet. I asked you that you clarify that your war resistors weren't active duty. You put up photos of soldiers in uniform as supporting Watada and they were no longer in uniform when they supported Watada or they would be in handcuffs. It is hardly too much to ask from a military spouse that you be clear on the facts. When you feed people disinformation and they find out they very quickly become disenchanted with your whole process and you end up hurting more than you help your cause. If you don't believe me just ask Bush. I'm so tired of YOU distorting the facts. And you expected Booman to get pissed off at me because I wanted facts instead of fictions on an issue that directly affects my life?
I've refused to engage with you all this time but I am sick and tired of you playing little miss victim and trashing everyone.
So... all this cussing and calling me horrible names and wishing bad things to happen to me... is all because I made a *mistake* in a diary about retired versus active support? Which I cleared up when showed. Is that it??? Is that why you went off the deep end and lashed out at everyone...
I used pictures and quotes from couragetoresist.com. Go to an event and see enlisted men turning themselves in because Watada and others have given them that avenue.
Actually I don't care anymore Tracy. You are a mean, vindictive person who is projecting personal issues and fears on to others because it's safer to hate us than to really question the war/Bush. Your tirades are filled with facts? What a crock that is.
The war doesn't only affect YOU and your family. This isn't about you. Now go and write a "factual" diary about us being horrible people to military familes again...
Booman: don't ever send me another email or try to contact me ever again.
Same old same old. I state what originally set everything off and how you don't care if you spread half truths around and now it's my cussing and attempting to say I did things that I never did. You have insisted on operating outside the boundaries of truth and accountability. You claimed that soldiers said horrible things to you and when my husband wanted to know their names because it is against the UCMJ for them to say anything to you at all you had no names and made it clear that you wanted no recourse. I have come to believe Janet that you are about a lot of drama and that's just an opinion. I'm not the only person affected by the war but everyone affected by the war deserves full truth about all things to be the highest priority if we all want to find the real answers though. A person who is no longer Active duty is not a war resistor. What are they resisting? What are they risking? Nothing.
Claimed? The recruiters from Fleet Week? My god woman, I didn't have their names. To be "clear" one mock shot me in the head with his fingers. Sorry I didn't have more "evidence" for you and your Marine....
Too bad the military doesn't demand the truth from their superiors as much as they do from bloggers and attack people like Lt. Watada and others. One diary had a mistake in it. And you are rage. Whatever.
As to resistors... Couragetoresist is set up to help active duty as are other sites you've been made aware of.
Drama? I really think you need help. I hope you get some.
I'm done with discussing any of this with you. I don't care how you want to spin things and what you want to think of or call me. It's your life.
I don't have a Marine. My husband is an Army soldier and I don't have him, he is my husband. You are avoiding the issue that you insisted on the misrepresentation that someone no longer in service can't really be a resistor by changing the subject to something else. Whatever, you did it and you did it after I pointed it out to you. You threw a fit and then did it again on purpose. Do it all you want but I do care how you want to spin things if you are putting out misinformation on blogs that has people posting "what's wrong with all the other soldiers when all of these other soldiers are resisting". They aren't understanding that real resistors have charges brought against them and the people you like to display in uniform aren't risking anything of the sort because they aren't in uniform any longer. It's your life too Janet but I will not allow liars to affect my life without standing up. I didn't allow Bush to do it and I won't allow you to do it. I have many people very dear to me on the line in this.
Iraq Veterans Against the War.
From wikipedia:
Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is an advocacy group comprised of active duty military and Iraq War veterans who are opposed to the U.S. occupation of Iraq. The organization advocates Immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces in Iraq; Reparations for the destruction and corporate pillaging of Iraq so that ordinary Iraqi people can control their own lives and future; and Full benefits, adequate healthcare (including mental health), and other supports for returning servicemen and women.
The group was founded in 2004 at a Veterans for Peace annual convention in Boston by Kelly Dougherty and six co-founders, including Mike Hoffman, Tim Goodrich, and Alex Ryabov [1]. Dougherty spent 10 months in Iraq as a member of the Colorado National Guard with the 220th Military Police Company in southern Iraq, near the city of An Nasariyah.
The membership is made of military personnel, recent veterans, active duty servicemen and women from all branches of military service, National Guard members and reservists, who have served since September 11, 2001.
See also Gold Star Families
IVAW are resisting. Just being in IVAW is reason enough to be discharged. Some are very sick and are in IVAW and therefore have lost all their benefits so are sick without medical/VA.
These soldiers and Marines are resisting and risking.
I'm very familiar with IVAW, remember Tim who was with me in Crawford. He is standing behind Lt. Watada in all the photos. Tim disagreed with the Iraq War and was part of the initial bombing of Iraq but he waited until his service was up before coming out against the war because he has no voice in jail and he didn't want to go to jail. I'm very familiar with Gold Star families and they had one hell of a fight with Code Pink that started in Crawford......I'm sure you're familiar with that right.....about propaganda and misinformation? Please also remember that I know Celeste too. I'm very familiar with these organizations and you are still lying when you call someone who is no longer active duty and against the Iraq War a resistor. They are resisting nothing. They are civilians voicing their free speech period.
For your information almost all soldiers who served without retiring are being denied treatment for their conditions, not just the vets that are protesting. It is a huge problem. We have befriended a pschyologist here on post who is fully aware of how huge the problem is but I won't be writing any diaries about any of it after your hit team got done with us. In IVAW the "V" is for Vets.......Vets aren't active duty and protesters aren't losing their benefits for protesting. They are all being denied benefits!
Some words of wisdom from a libertarian conservative, Justin Raimondo:
Support our troops? Hell no. Anyone who "supports the troops" is an accomplice to their deeds. The evidence shows clearly that these are not innocent babes in the woods: they are wolves, predators, killers, deeply, profoundly implicated in what will go down in history as a horrific war of aggression.
The clear fact of the matter is that America's conquest of Iraq is the policy of criminals – except that even most criminals act rationally, in the sense that there's some profit in their activities, some benefit, real or imagined, to be gained. But this war is not an ordinary crime: it is a wanton orgy of murder that is all the more horrendous due to its utter senselessness. This is nihilism in action.
I doubt that a congressional resolution is going to address the main cause of this war and its continuation: the psychological sickness that is eating away at the American character. It is a mix of hubris, bloodlust, and sheer depravity, and it is being acted out against the backdrop of international politics. The post-9/11 world we are living in has become a projection of our own demons, which have now been unleashed on a horrified world.
James,
We already know where you stand and I doubt very seriously that you are upset about anything that I said at DK about any of this. You are also the most concise here when it comes to dealing with me. Militarytracy can go fuck herself....I read it and just cracked up. For some reason I have the most respect for you on here than any other poster because you don't pussyfoot around and you aren't ashamed one little bit about what you have said at any given time or how you feel. You have no desire to pretend to care about any soldier, you just tell me to fuck off and there is something very reassuring in that where all of this is concerned.
Now I have a "hit team".. .good lord this is all so dramatic. I'm a liar and a distorter of truths. I made a freaking mistake in a diary regarding active duty and retired personnel being quoted on couragetoresist.com So now Tracy can attack me, Supersoling, Alohaleezy and anyone else she wants because V is for Vet and Vets are not active duty... Go tell that to the IVAW who are supporting Watada in Ft. Lewis. I know veterans of the Gulf War who are active duty...
James: Darrell Anderson of IVAW gave some speeches while in Portland that said similiar things. Basically not to support what you don't know about. That war crimes are being committed because this is an illegal occupation. He goes on to discuss many crimes he himself committed while in Iraq.
When you're so far left you find common cause with the "wisdom" of Justin Raimondo, it's only a matter of time before you complete the transformation into David Horowitz and his ilk.
It beats quoting Alberto and his ilk regarding the "legality" of this occupation.
Give the pathetic smear attempt a break, Shalimar. Yes, even conservative libertarians have been against this war & can have aritculate, valid opinions. I never ever thought I'd see the day I would nod my head in agreement at something Pat Buchanan said, but it's happened more than once these past war years & I've got plenty o' grip to resist any skeeery slide into Horowitism or any other phoney horror you want to conjure.
Janet, you've pro'lly seen this article by Sharon Smith at CounterPunch, but if not:
A Chicago antiwar listserv report described a 20-minute meeting on January 22 between twenty local antiwar activists and Democratic Party powerbroker Rahm Emanuel: "Emanuel refused to take any position on any effort to cut off funding for continuation of the war past the current fiscal year." The meeting ended abruptly when Emanuel left to catch a flight.
While Democrats have kept antiwar lobbyists at arms' length since November, they have given a much warmer reception to corporate lobbyists. The Los Angeles Times observed on January 22, "Surprising as it might seem in view of the Democrats' public rhetoric, business groups are getting their telephone calls returned. And they're getting plenty of face time with the new House and Senate leaders."
Back in November, when Pelosi unveiled the Democratic majority's plans for its first 100 hours, she promised to "roll back the multibillion-dollar subsidies for Big Oil." When the bill left the House in mid-January, however, it sliced only $5.5 billion from the $32 billion in subsidies and tax breaks oil conglomerates will receive over the next five years-a small price to pay for the profit-soaked industry.
Grassroots activists must decide whether the antiwar movement will seek polite engagement for "face time" with Washington powerbrokers or to embark on an admittedly less diplomatic strategy to get in their faces. The potential clearly exists for the latter.
In a little-reported protest on January 27, 2,500 demonstrators shut down a military recruiting center in Seattle, led by the local chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW). One observer described, "Community members emerged from houses and joined the march as it snaked through the neighborhood. As the march drew near to the recruiting center the demonstrators began chanting, "Occupation is a crime, Ehren Watada should do no time!" and "You gotta resist, don't enlist!"
Anger, not diplomacy, points the way forward for the antiwar movement at this pivotal moment, if it is to grow and prosper in the weeks and months ahead.
Janet - What's happening up there is important - no, crucial - & in this kind of struggle, there is rarely any indication at all that anything one might do will 'make a diff.' Many many rolesto play, even the suburban soccer moms trading notes & opinions in the bleachers.
(& here's the CP url for S Smith:
http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon02072007.html
I hadn't seen it Arcturus, thanks. Yep, there is now a divide between marchers and civil disobedience... But I think getting in their faces is the next step. The corporate media and the politicians (Dems and Reps) have ignored us or tried to criminalize us for far too long.
BS Janet. I pointed it out to you and then you did it again only bigger and better the next time. If you want to get in a pissing contest with people go find someone else because I'm only in this for what it's really worth to me in real world costs and I have no need for make believe pissing contests in the airy blogosphere. Because this has real world costs to me is why I am here all the time no matter what you call me. It isn't a freakin popularity contest, it's my real life and the real life of a lot of other Americans. Calm down Brinn. I never called you my enemy. I just respect James because he lays it out there simply and easily. I can respect him for that for Christ's sake. If you guys are my enemy or not it doesn't change my mission because this is my life, Jesus.....get it.....it doesn't really matter if you like me or not or agree with me or not....it certainly isn't going to shut me up and if things become pissing contests then you won't be afraid if the whole world takes a peek at what you have to say....right?
hard to have a pissing contest when a person refuses to engage with you. The Whole World take a peek?
I'm not even sure what your "mission" is. I don't want to know either.
Here all the time? Didn't you hear your own child's plea? To get off the net and spend time with them. The fact that your daughter had to post a diary to you to be able to communicate with you speaks volumes. Get some help.
I have agreed with Buchanon on a scary number of issues lately as well, however the complete lack of empathy for an entire class of people (in this case soldiers) based on the evil committed by a subset of that class is about as anti-progressive as you can get.
I have no need for make believe pissing contests in the airy blogosphere.
Then why do you keep engaging in them?
Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, you should be the first one banned from this place since you were trying to track down my personal information to use against me.
You have NO credibility here. None.
Tracy, I adore you but please let it go. If Janet is the biggest enemy you can find on the internet then your values have really changed. Go over to Dan Riehl's site and beat the crap out of him for awhile if you want to take out your frustration on someone deserving.
shalimar it isn't about enemies. she claims she is on the left and she has been dishonest about facts. I don't care what freaks on the right have to say. Their freakishness is what brings people to the left. When the left can't tell the truth though where does truth reside? I'm not frustrated either. All I do is sit here and type the truth. There isn't anything frustrating in that at all. It's reassuring that I can speak truth to dishonesty.
Horowitz and is ilk of crazed neoconmen are a much different beast. No one here would have known me for the past quarter century, but suffice it to say, I've held something akin to my current positions quite consistently during that time - the "Trotsky to Strauss" route is one I made sure to avoid.
Of course it should be pointed out that I have not exactly held my libertarian streak as a secret.
Catnip,
This isn't a pissing contest, it's about truth and honesty. I blog as much truth and honesty as possible and that is the place of the left isn't it? Full transparency?
One can get into semantics over what "support" means. & it's a loaded term. You seem to be deliberately mis-reading to make cheap shots here. Or to be more precise: creating false dichotomies & arguing w/ bravado against yr strawman.
Expressing an unwillingness to go along w/ the mind-numbing repetitions of "Support our Troops" w/ all its attendent flag-waving hardly precludes any of us from having & expressing empathy for what war does to a person. Or the shattered lives when they return.
I'd prefer to not have to read about any more Manny Babbitt's, so please don't come in here lecturing about "anti-progressive."
Tracy, you have made your point over and over and over and over again. Let it go, you're wasting your time and accomplishing nothing. Janet is a good person, she doesn't deserve the harrassment.
You're just here for a fight, Tracy. You have a forum at dkos. Go there.
You can go on about "truth and honesty" all you like but those of us who know your history online certainly won't be fooled by that hypocrisy.
Know what Super? (0.63 / 11)
Now you are coming after my kids. Listen here you Son of a Bitch, don't you ever use my name in any diary ever again. I fucking hate you you pig. Fuck off and die! Go away and leave me and my family alone. Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You! If I could remove what you put up here I would. I do not want to erase my daughter's words because she has been through enough and she doesn't need that disrespect. So now I must find a way to prevent her from reading this diary again but if she does she will see that I did not allow you just hurt me again and take it. FUCK OFF YOU SON OF A BITCH! If you think I'm going to allow you to hurt my children you are dead fucking wrong. You, Janet, Spiderleaf........lowest life forms around and Leezy isn't much further behind. Stay away from me all of you!
PMS Purchase More Shoes
by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 1st, 2007 at 08:12:31 AM EST
Notice that last line? "Stay away from me all of you!"
Yet here you are and no one is forcing you to be here, are they?
You're just a drama queen with a grudge who needs an audience. You're not fooling anyone.
You have no desire to pretend to care about any soldier, you just tell me to fuck off and there is something very reassuring in that where all of this is concerned.
Hallelujah and pass the ammo! Did Tracy just enlist in her holy crusade?? About freakin' time that right wing troll got off her ass and tried to do something.
That explains why she tells other people to fuck off. She thinks it should be reassuring for them too.
I was baited and baited and baited at Booman Trib. How is stating the facts of everything that happened harassing someone when they attempt to rewrite it all. I'm not saying that Janet is a bad person. I'm not what she has attempted to paint me as and I have a right to clarify things. It is a free country.
OKay... you are right I was wrong in my diary something I admitted to at the time - that I simply made a error about the active duty part that with with the quotes from courage to resist dot come. I was wrong. I am so sorry that I didn't know that couragetoresist had used quotes from retired military and not active duty (at the time) I am so sorry.
Can you now drop it?
If that error in a damn diary paints me as some liar so be it. I can live with it. I admitted to the error numerous times. It was a fucking mistake. But since that time several active duty personnel have come out to resist and support the resisters. As I have AGAIN AND AGAIN pointed out.
But I'd like to point out that you owe many people apologies due to your completely off the wall tirades and personal abuse and attacks.
You've also distorted many things yourself. You've assassinated many people's charachter and reputation. You've told people to fuck off and die...
Baited? You were never baited. In fact I left so that my thoughts, diaries, hell, even photographs wouldn't upset you. In fact, others left BoomanTribue so as not to have to deal with being attacked by you. Baited? You created diaries to attack specific people.
Whatever you want Tracy. Claim it. Use it to make yourself feel better. Use it to help you sleep at night. I don't really care.
I was baited Janet. Not by you but I was baited. Janet I don't want there to be a gulf between us, not one at all. You have a lot of courage and a lot of energy. I wonder if the two of us together could really do something about the frustration that exists where we are divided. From so many hurts and frustrations have birthed so much ingenuity. I have had an idea for a few weeks now. I have a had a serious idea, as serious as the notion of going to Crawford was and an idea that's time has come. Wonder if you and I could heal this rift and maybe work together on this if you will hear me out and see how it fits on you. I know this is a strange post in light of so many things. I have been cleaning out the whole house though and planting strawberries.....I'm in the doing mode and when I thought about the largess of how big the thing could get I can't do it alone and I don't many people with the energy or drive to work with me to pull the whole thing off. I don't want to do it alone because I have a special child that needs me often too as you do. If you are possibly game let me know.
You created this "rift". You pushed people away. People that loved and cared for you. People that in the face of so much anger still stuck it out till they could no longer take the abuse. The only space is the one you created. I never even fought with you...
Speaking of doing things alone...
I have to step outside and go to a very intense action... alone... for a bit. I have been trying very hard to get myself grounded for this certain event. An event where the plans keep changing.
Today you decided to fight with me. And now this minute you want to re-connect... I really can't deal with this right now. I'm sorry but I can't right now. So I'm not going to engage it for a while. Right now, I have to focus on safety issues and my kids.
Un-freaking-believable!!!!
or not. :)
Don't do it Janet. She is still going off in a little nicer way but now at Booman over at Dkos.
Maybe he will finally see her for what she is...a deeply conflicted woman.
I wish that I wouldn't have checked back on a response from Janet, but I sort of needed to. I understand where she is coming from too. I can disagree with Booman though and even tell him that he has written something that has really ticked me off but he isn't evil incarnate. He will think about what I have to say. We will converse about it probably at some time on the nets. He tends to think of the military often in a very abstract way than the flesh and blood it is but it isn't like he nuked something. I know that Booman always has the best intentions so I don't need to create a website where I can read every word he writes and then paint it in the vilest light I can conjure either because life is just too damned short and why would I want to waste it trying to be crappyish to a pretty decent person. Hate to disappoint you guys but I may be mad about something that he wrote but I don't think that'll add up to calling for his head. He has better things to do all day long too other than find ways to bait me into lunacy. At the end of the day it's just words on a blog and its only real worth is what each of is willing to pay for it......I owe learning this gem of truth to you guys here so thanks.
No baiting you into lunacy necessary Tracy. You need to take responsibility for your own words and actions. You don't want to waste time? You sure haven't minded doing it here or at Booman though did you? YOU are at the crux of the whole Booman blowup and you just can't see that can you? Take a hike back to Dkos where you still have some of the posters duped. Eventually your true nature will come out.
Support the Troops...Impeach Bush!
Does that make me a superduper? That's kind of cute. May I please be a superduper armandoish deeply conflicted boot licking sycophant Mistress Leezy?
Supporting the troops by impeaching Bush sounds lovely.
(scribe)
You asked to be left alone. You have been.
Janet has not been following you around the blogs to keep thing going.
Nor has anyone else here.
You say you need to be around supportive people because you're so stressed as a military wife. There are some and you know where they are.
Yet you choose to come over to mo betta, where you well know we all are, to get to Janet and carry this on.
Your words and your behavior seem totally disconnected from each other. They do not match at all.
Amen Glo
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