Friday, February 09, 2007

Meta Meta Mo Meta

Is it cabin fever? Winter wankery? Post election win partum depression? Meta madness?

No one's really sure.

What we do know, however, is that the blogosphere natives are extremely restless.

There was the recent meltdown at BooMan Tribune over the lack of enforcement of "the rule" (ie. "Don't be a prick".)

The huge blogapalooza blowout over kos's blogroll banishments. (skippy, MSOC, BooMan)

The all out attack against Adam the Soldier who was deemed by the powers that be at dkos to be a hoaxster without any proof but oops! it was all a mistake! Carry on and don't mind the fact that the big boyz just smeared the poor guy and banned him.

Whatever has caused all of this drama lately, one thing is certain: the trains have collided and all that's left to do now is to tend to the victims and clean up the wreckage.

91 comments:

Janet said...

They banned him? First they criticize his grammar and now this?

It's like seeing Right Wing Extremists attacking Veterans for Peace.

I think the big boyz blogosphere is restless because there is so much activism to be done and all they can think about is site meters and crap like that. Maybe they are restless because they need to get off their assses and step outside. I mean really, it's kinda like politicians who don't get out and meet the people they say they represent.

There is a huge disconnect with politicians nowadays, hell they usually won't even meet the people now. Or say one thing and do another. I guess the blog gods are like that now, too.

sjct said...

MSOC's rant was classic drama queen. Martin's was judged by most commentors as "classy." He may have even gotten enough new readers to make up for those he lost. Otherwise, I'm afraid he's going to have to get a job.

scribe said...

I dunno, but sometimes from, a safe distance, it seems like the internet's version of TV soap operas. "Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of, "As The Blogs Turn".

catnip said...

More mass hysteria about Adam the Soldier.

And this:

All right, here's my nonfinal determination. (5+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Adam B, peraspera, jjellin, Dion, Same As It Ever Was

It ain't conclusive either way. Sigh. I've got a lot of stuff that points in one direction, and lots of stuff that points to the other.

My (techie) wife pointed out that something I thought was definite proof of sockpuppetry could in fact just be a (rather remarkable) coincidence. After looking it over, I'm forced to begrudgingly agree that she might be right, and I might be wrong. I've got to withdraw that evidence.

But the poster has been banned, based on a variety of factors. And if you were to ask me, I have a definite opinion as to what I think is going on here. But I'm no longer going to state that it's "confirmed" that it was so-and-so because it ain't. I apologize for my error.

by Hunter on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 12:04:32 AM PST


Wanker. That's like posting a correction on page C12 of a newspaper.

Anonymous said...

I thought you guys would be thrilled that Adam the soldier was banned and treated like trash. Soldiers aren't worth a spit to you guys last time I read anything from any of you here on a different site. Mo Betta ambulance chasers is what we have here.

catnip said...

Why is BooMan peddling the bullshit that Iran's president said he thought Israel should be "wiped off the map" when it it's been long known that that is a mistranslation?

...the actual quote, which comes from an old speech of Khomeini, does not imply military action, or killing anyone at all. The second reason is that it is just an inexact translation. The phrase is almost metaphysical. He quoted Khomeini that "the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time." It is in fact probably a reference to some phrase in a medieval Persian poem. It is not about tanks.

catnip said...

I thought you guys would be thrilled that Adam the soldier was banned and treated like trash. Soldiers aren't worth a spit to you guys last time I read anything from any of you here on a different site.

That just shows how wrong you are, doesn't it?

Mo Betta ambulance chasers is what we have here.

No - bullshit comments from an anonymous poster who lacks reading comprehension is what we have here.

alohaleezy said...

leezy says:

It takes tons of courage to post an anonyomous comment belittling people. The whole thing is imploding.

alohaleezy said...

Tracy sure doesn't care about her daughter much. She may not be posting at BT but she sure as hell is posting everywhere else. DramaQueen. Take a chill pill.

catnip said...

Hey leezy! I see you signed up so we can see your name now.

The whole thing is imploding.

No kidding.

Anonymous said...

That was quick. Three comments up bang bang bang at one comment you little wrecks didn't like. Do you guys sit here all day just waiting for someone to poke a stick at you? That's sad.

sjct said...

I think all of these frenzies may be misplaced anger toward our new "Democratic" Congress. They haven't even pushed thru a resolution against Bush that doesn't even have any consequences. They're wanking around and I was afraid they would.

alohaleezy said...

No we leave that to you Tracy, the Master Baiter. Go hide back behind your buddy's skirt will ya.I have only posted three comments here as I just signed up yesterday. I have a real life and a real job honey. I don't sit and wait in anticipation of you. Get a life.

Hi Catnip....good to be here.

alohaleezy said...

hi sjct...damn straight about that. Alot of anger and frustration towards the congress for sure.

catnip said...

Do you guys sit here all day just waiting for someone to poke a stick at you? That's sad.

Do you sit here all day just to insult us? That's not sad. It's pathetic.

sjct said...

Catnip, as an admin can you see who our troll is?

Aside from the current subject: I got an email the other day by mistake, I'm sure. It was a shout-out from someone who will remain nameless to his clan re: his diary up at dKos. It made me start thinking about how the rec list there can be gamed. How many recs do you need in a rapid time frame to jump up? If you had, say, 20 buddies, would that do it?

booman said...

this is just a note to let you know that I have a problem with several members that are concerned now about their privacy being invaded by people on this site. I'm not saying that they have a justified fear but I have had requests to delete old comments and diaries and I have also had a request to try to figure out how to delete them from the old frappr map. It's not an isolated thing. I have also had two emails from members that now afraid to post because of this whole thing.

I don't know what to do about it and I don't think it is a rationale fear so I am not asking you to do anything about it.

But it pisses me off enough that I want to let you know about it.

I have a thick skin so I can handle having a site dedicated to picking apart my posts, disparaging my character, and discussing my private life, but others cant even deal with the potential threat of that.

alohaleezy said...

Hmmm.and you have nothing to say about your "best friend" posting here? Why would anyone at your site fear that their privacy would be invaded? Who are you calling out here or do you need to continue to veiled accusations?

alohaleezy said...

And Booman...did you tell those members that you will not delete comments or diaries because "it's just too much work" like you told me. Step lightly my friend. I am about to start publishing your emails so people will know what you are really all about. Classact my ass.

NLinStPaul said...

Booman, since we have no idea what you are referring to, there's really not much we can do about it. If its an irrational fear, why not take it back to them? Lets deal in facts. The only one who's privacy has been threatened is catnip. And in case you hadn't noticed, traffic here has screeched to an almost halt. Most have moved on. That is until our own "anonymous" showed up here today. Your site has picked up with newcomers because of your magnanimous post about blogrolls. And many of us have our frustrations settled and have moved on. If I were you I'd just email back and ask others to check things out and move on.

catnip said...

I don't get the gist of your comment, BooMan. Some people are scared about some kind of imaginary threat and...what?

But it pisses me off enough that I want to let you know about it.

But you don't expect we should or could do anything about it...so...?

but others cant even deal with the potential threat of that.

Well, that's their problem, isn't it? Why are they bugging you about it? Tell them to get a life.

They might need to be reminded that the only person in all of this that had a legitimate concern about their privacy being violated was me - by Tracy. Unless they have proof of anything else untoward going on, I'd suggest they chill out and that you not worry about it.

catnip said...

Ha...good timing, Nancy. lol

NLinStPaul said...

Good timing...great minds. Take your pick. I'll go with the later.

sjct said...

potential threat Booman, what the heck are you talking about? How could anyone have such a concern? I thought I'd followed every angle on this frenzy and I don't recall anyone on this site who expressed an interest in tracking somebody down on a map!

catnip said...

I don't even know what an "old frappr map" is, so I just skipped that part.

BooMan said...

I am telling you the net result of your campaign has been to freak several people out and that they have contacted me to tell me that they are scared of you and that you are basically looking to destroy, expose, etc. anyone that displeases you, and that they have either decided to go into lurk mode or asked me to clean up any privacy concerns as protection from you.

You can tell them to grow up if you want. I didn't say I agreed that you have any such intention. I just want you to know the effect you are having.

And that is only the people that actually bothered to contact me.

On the whole, considering I lost my biggest link, traffic is way up since you left. And it was so before the surge in 35 new members in the last 24 hours. It's not hurting traffic. This is what happens when you go after people's personal lives and create a blog to snipe at commenters in threads at the site.

It freaks some people out. If you want to pick on people, stick with picking on me.

Goodbye.

alohaleezy said...

What the fuck are you talking about? And what site meter are you reading? Sure, you'll get lots more traffic when you go to Kos and pimp yourself after he stabbed you in the back. Tracy once agian started this shit today. Did she run crying to you again Martin? If she can't handle it she should stay off the blogs period!

NLinStPaul said...

What "campaign" are you talking about? We used this place to vent in order to avoid blowing your place up even more than it already had. Everyone's gone their seperate ways now - except you and the troll today - and maybe some that even you admit are not being rational. If someone has an actual issue they want to put on the table, do it. But otherwise I guess we can all celebrate your improved traffic, our new efforts and get on with life.

Or did that "goodbye" mean you dropped this in and are gone?

catnip said...

What the hell are you talking about?

We're supposed to comfort some unknown, paranoid people that nobody's doing anything to? Do you even know how ridiculous that sounds??

This is your problem, not ours.

Our "campaign"?

No wonder people are so bloody paranoid. Read my lips: There is NO campaign. If you keep pushing that bullshit, you just reinforce their paranoia. But why am I giving you advice? If you and they can't deal with it, nothing we say here is going to change things.

It's not hurting traffic. This is what happens when you go after people's personal lives and create a blog to snipe at commenters in threads at the site.

So now you think we're trying to hurt your traffic? Why would we link to your blog in our posts? Mon dieu. This just gets more bizarre each day.

Nobody is going after people's lives except Tracy.

Which part of that don't you and they understand?

Holy crap.

catnip said...

Or did that "goodbye" mean you dropped this in and are gone?

I doubt that. It's like a flipping addiction to crisis over there and if they don't have one, they just make one up.

supersoling said...

Why are you guys falling for this crap? Seriously.

catnip said...

Because, allegations that we are going after people's personal lives when no one has any proof of any such thing are pretty damn serious - not to mention being absolutely delusional. They can either put up or shut up.

booman said...

I get it. You just don't care. Fine.

Just do me a favor. Before you make snarky comments about members think for a minute about what you are trying to accomplish.

If you want to do a diary every few days remarking on what I am writing and why it sucks, that is fine with me. Marisacat shouldn't own the brand.

But could you please refrain, or least think hard about not picking on regular members?

Between Delaware Dem having his employment researched and his dating profiles publicized and people examining photos and talking about my girlfriend, people are starting to worry about THERE OWN privacy. And people think anything they say might lead to an investigation.

I really don't expect any senstivity from you because so far all I have seen is mockery of people's privacy concerns, or just telling people they should get a life, that it is their problem, and that they should just get over it.

But it is a real concern to some people and so I guess I am asking you do something. Think before you mock.

alohaleezy said...

How can anyone care about something they have no clue about? More people making shit up? Booman this is so unbecoming of you. I would say it's time to get your house in order before you go inviting any cnadidates to come to your place for a visit. Don't you get it? It's YOU that is being taken for a ride buddy. Open your eyes. What do you want "us" to do?

NLinStPaul said...

Unless your emails are addressing Marisicat, DD (for outing himself), half the BT community (for outing the worst kept secret on the blogoshpere) or Tracy, they are barking up the wrong tree. Why even bring it here?

I get tired of people not being able to handle anger without it being percieved as a threat.

No one here has threatened anyone.

Anonymous said...

I care! BooMoan, I care! She stopped posting at 3:43 precisely; numerologists know why, but others are puzzled - it's a secret joke between oysters.

Anonymous said...

Ignore the bannings and the purge and the orange shirts jackbooting independent thought into the ground. I am sick, sick, sick of reading the same people in every post. They dont have anything intertesting to say and add 0 to the topics. the threads get 100s of comments because its mostly the cool kidz yap, yap, yapping about nothing.

Even the peeps who arent asshole are tiresome. Clammy, Buddharma and other popular posters really just post tthe same diary over and over.

There is no movement over there. It 10-15 peeps that love the sound of hearing their own voices while simaltanously kissing each others asses.

The best thing that could ever happen to Dkos is if a bunch of them just vanished for 3 weeks

booman said...

I gotta walk away from this.

I want you to consider that there is a chilling effect when someone has their friendster profile researched and posted because someone doesn't like what they write on a blog. It doesn't help to have them track down your employer, lift your company photo, and post it with mocking commentary.

You can say that DD deserved it if you want to. But you can't say that it doesn't freak people out. And that is just one piece of a larger picture that is obviously bothering a significant number of people.

When people think that they will be attacked and their identities investigated, and information will be posted if they displease a group of people, then they do not want to participate.

And they don't know who is willing to do that and who isn't. All they know is that they are being watched and that people are picking apart what people say.

All I ask is that you understand that people are feeling that way, not accept that they are right to worry about you.

scribe said...

This is just total nonsense, all of it.

Boo, if you think you are powerful enough to influence what anyone writes anywhere outside of your own blog space, you are really deluded.

My guess is you are seriously pissed at everyone here, and this just gave you another chance to show it, under the cover of concern for others.

I sincerely hope others here refuse to rise to this bait. Or to the bating of any anynomous poster who drops in too. That's playing right into the hands of those who really want to keep it all going. None of this crap is worth one more second of anyones valuable time or energy, in my own opinion.

But I also know I cannot control anyone else's behaviors, and I know that by simply be being present here, I will be painted with whatever nasty broad brush anyone cares to use, including yours. That really truly sucks, when it's your brush, Boo. I have never done anything to you but try to be a useful, contributing part of your community. And I never expected to be treated like this by you in one million years.

Anonymous said...

Run, don't walk! and don't look back either .... you'll turn into a pillar of salt.

sjct said...

This is quite bizaare. Mariscat pokes fun at DD on her blog and the people on this blog are to be feared? Absurd.

Spiderleaf says to Boo that he might be influenced by his girlfriend -- that everyone, everyone! knew about -- and that's prying into someone's private life? That makes people afraid that they are going to be exposed?!

Holy Cow! Paranoia strikes deep...

NLinStPaul said...

So, let me see if I can get what you're saying...

A group of people who fear the expression of anger take a totally unrelated incident and use it to fan their unfounded fears.

And how is it that we are supposed to express our concern for this? By shutting up?

Got your wish. As I've said many times, this was all over here, until you and the troll showed up.

Got some anger you still need to vent? Give it to us straight and not through your concern for others.

Anonymous said...

BooMan - why would anyone be afraid of a website that does exhaustive research about those who disagree with them and then names them and any known facts about their real life and ridicules them? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

scribe said...

I've got some other things to say to you Boo, and I;ll say them here for two reasons: 1) I know you'll see them because you can't stay away from here, and two, out of respect for the people at the pond I care about, I won't post them there and start up another bruhaha.

You are not an innocent bystander in bringing all of this about. I had no desire to leave the pond: it's been a good place to be and to contribute, and I've gained much by being there. It was you who didn't know how to keep it from getting polluted, Boo, by not following your own rule in an even handed manner.

Even then, a lot of us who never wanted to leave tried to help it stay clear, but you did not want our help. It was your way or no way, and the result was it got too polluted for some of us handle and we had to get out of the water.

Yes we came here and bitched and howled and even shed a few tears..but then the majority of us got busy doing something constructive with all that energy, in starting up a new community. Not in retaliation. Not as somewhere to go bash Boo. (Have you dropped in there yet. If you do, you'll see what I mean. Your name hasn't even been mentioned once, as far as I know.)

We're too excited at the idea of building something brand new and different, not another Bootrib to stand in competition with you. That's why the posting here all but stopped..we've move ON and were busy with that.

Until today, when here you come in the door again, dragging it all back up again. Thereby stirring the very pot you accuse US of stirring. Nice, Boo. Real nice.

booman said...

I can't help myself. I gotta post one more here.

It doesn't seem to matter what I say. You've known me, in a way. Whatever you think of me you have a long track record to look at.

Do none of you think it is uncool to dig up people's dating profiles to win a political argument? To post someone's company photo means you reasearched them deeply enough to find where they work. You, none of you, can understand why that makes other people besides just the target feel creeped out?

Do any one of you want to condone that? Do any one of you refuse to see how it freaks people out that someone might do the same thing to them?

I know that is Marisacat, an infrequent participant here. But others have been mentioned here, and other are afraid of being mentioned here. And they don't know what you're capable of. All they know is they want no part of it.

Why is there absolutely no sympathy for people that have pissed you off in one way or another. Get a life, paranoid delusionals, etc.

If you don't care you don't care. I see no signs that you care an iota about any point I have made here, ever.

Ok. Now I am really and truly going to let you be.

dove said...

BooMan,
Who is the "you" here? Are you claiming unnamed people are frightened that Nanette is going to out them? Me? Nancy? Scribe? Supersoling? Who, exactly, are they accusing and on the basis of what evidence?

Certainly I'm not interested in outing anyone, whatever my opinion of their political beliefs and behaviour.

I don't think this latest brouhaha over at your place was all about you. It was about the behaviour of some of your members, their incompatible political beliefs and ethics, how you chose to address that and -- yes --it culminated in some of the people who posted there leaving.

Therefore, I don't think it reasonable to ask people to post only about you -- it wasn't (and isn't) only about you. It is, I think, reasonable to ask people not to engage in outing exercises. Though I don't see why such requests should be directed here any more than elsewhere.

You are presumably aware that some people who have been banned have expressed concern about your site's retention of personal information in diaries and comments -- in some cases, I think, containing information about having survived physical and sexual abuse? I hope that if you do decide to delete diaries etc., that you will be even-handed in this and address the needs of everybody who has expressed such concerns rather than only those of a select few for whom you may (or may not -- I have no idea who has emailed you!) feel personal friendship.

Alohaleezy, I suspect that you are probably angry right now, and I know that given our past history, it would probably be much better if someone else was saying this. Nevertheless. If your correspondence with BooMan was private, please don't post it publicly or threaten to do so.

Anonymous said...

Promises! Promises!

scribe said...

And one more thing! Just this morning I told Nancy I was seeing this whole mess from a better perspective, and thought I might even write a diary at BT to share this, so as to not be one of those regular posters who simply up and disappear into thin air. I wanted to be able to bow out gracefully from that role, and still be able to come and visit and comment, etc. Now, after this, I've lost my desire to do that, and I feel like just shut the Boo door permanently and just keep on walking. I've also got this sick sort of feeling you won't give a shit anyway.

booman said...

If you want me to answer any questions please email me. I can't continue to post here. But I am willing to address things like privacy issues or other concerns privately.

NLinStPaul said...

You have posted here WAY more than Marisicat. So her presence here once or twice means NOTHING.

Since you're not giving us any details, I would guess that what people are reacting to is having their WORDS at BT and other blogs linked to and quoted here. Yes, we have some here that are proficient at catching people speaking their own words. But there has never been a hint of exposing people's personal lives (other than Tracy trolling for information about catnip).

Has it even crossed your mind that there might be some out there who are fanning the flame and accusing us of doing things that have no connection to reality? Just like they accuse all of us of hating the military?

scribe said...

OK. I'm speaking only for myself here. I can't help but notice that after two whole days of feeling SO good and so positively energized about the new community, that it only took revisiting this old shit once here tonight, (thanks to Boo,) to deflate that feeling and make me feel like I need a shower. I'm not gonna have it. I'm just not going to allow anymore of this crap to get on me. Attack, counter attack, never letting anything go..it's just not my thing anymore.

For me, looks like it has to be like how I am with going into bars. I know I can't drink ever again. I really have no desire to anymore, but if I hang out in them long enough, I just might.

While I truly honor other peoples needs and everyones right to say whatever they need to say here, tonight has convinced me I just need to bow out out of here for awhile, and stay focused on what's next.

See ya over at ECFS!!

supersoling said...

scribe,
:o)

catnip said...

I just have to add one thing: Delaware Dem outed himself and if you hadn't posted otherwise on your site - slamming Marisacat in the process just because it was fashionable - maybe your site members would have known the truth and wouldn't be so damn paranoid now.

Regardless, they have no basis for their allegations - yet here you are backing up their fears. Why?

Maybe if you actually admitted you were wrong about DD and Marisacat, they'd calm down. Admit your mistake and move on.

catnip said...

Stop e-mailing me, Martin. If you have something to say, do it here.

I don't need to be insulted by you via my e-mail inbox.

I've said all I'm going to to you about this latest flare up.

alohaleezy said...

To all concerned:

I am sorry if my participation in this flamewar in anyway hurt any of you here. I will bow out now. As Scribe said this is just too much for me. I really am sick to my stomach and have been deeply hurt by Booman and his position in all of this. We all have circumstances, but that will never give someone the right to say the things that were said to Super and me at BT by Tracy. Not only did she not stop there she did it all over again at DK.

Dove...not to worry. I won't publish the emails here. I just want you all to know that the public BooMan is way different than the private email guy. I'm done and will find a place that is peaceful. Isn't there enough fucking hate in the world to be doing this shit to each other. God I am so sad.

catnip said...

Martin,

That now makes 3 E-MAILS from you since this afternoon about this bullshit.

Leave me alone!

Don't you have a flipping blog to run??

catnip said...

Fuck Martin! 4 e-mails now?? Stop harassing me!

catnip said...

Make that 5 e-mails now.

Which part of "I have absolutely no intention of responding to you so get the fuck out of my inbox" don't you get?

catnip said...

And you acknowledge in this latest fucking e-mail that you are harassing me.

Fuck you, Martin.

LEAVE ME ALONE!

Which part of that don't you understand?

supersoling said...

Can we finally close this ugly little chapter now? Catnip, isn't it possible to just delete the emails without reading them if they're pissing you off so much? Just a thought. This entire episode is making a lot of people, on all sides, look a tad bit unhinged. That's why I don't participate here anymore. It seves no usefull purpose beyond publically raging against the machines. Which accomplishes exactly what? Nothing measurable as far as I can see, except to further fan the flames. It's real ugly and I don't like it, not at all. What's done is done.

blueneck said...

I pretty much agree with super, but if someone comes over here and leaves damning comments, I think there may be some reason to respond.

I, for one, do not think it is cool to out someone or further out someone once they are somewhat out of the cloak of anonymity. However, it is important to distinguish between the outing and the subsequent piling on if you want to be a truth-teller about certain incidents in the past.

Also, I don't think it does any good to whine about it. If people don't understand the risks when they try to hide behind a veil of anonymity, it's high time they learned about it.

Although I have remained mostly anonymous, I have no delusions of being able to maintain my anonymity in the face of a full assault. That is why I have never said anything online that I am not at least marginally comfortable with people ultimately attributing to me in my real life.

If it makes someone feel uncomfortable to blog, they should feel free to not participate. It doesn't matter to me what blog does or does not suffer because individuals learn that they can be 'outed'. It's the truth, and the truth should be made known.

The potential for someone to get upset and to out someone else is also a good reason to nip crap in the bud and enforce civility rules quickly and surely. If a blog ignores enough dustups and lets them escalate or recur, passions will rise and people will get pissed. I'm not saying it's right for someone to out someone else's anonymity, I'm just saying that if it can happen, it will, so plan accordingly and try to head it off before it happens...

catnip said...

super,
Maybe you wouldn't be disturbed by Martin e-mailing you 5 times for no good reason but I am and I have the right to express that.

I had moved on. Then he shows up here with these ridiculous allegations. Since he posted those comments under my post, I have the right to respond. If you think that makes me look like I'm unhinged, I don't care. He's harassing me. Who's really unhinged here?

You're under no obligation to keep reading this site.

Anonymous said...

Children must have supervision

Anonymous said...

Never spoke on the phone?

Anonymous said...

Email me! BooMoan -- I have a recipe for cooked goose I'd like to share. We'll start with sauteed frog legs served with a nice Chianti and fava beans .... If you don't email me, I still have your number.

Yolanda

spiderleaf said...

CabinGirl seriously, this is beneath you.

And honey, I never said I didn't speak to you on the phone, I said I never spoke to BooMan. Duh. Reading comprehension is always a good thing.

Bye, bye. Enjoy your pity party. Oh, and get a life. No one will play your sick game anymore.

spiderleaf said...

oh, one last thing and then I get back to the real world. This whole thing is too funny.

BooMan, in one of your bizarre comments here you said I had to "know" you and CG were dating because you were driving up from Philly together.

Since Chris was also driving up with you both and then cancelled when CG's kid had poison ivy are you saying you were dating him too? I'm so confused.

booman said...

I've already had it confirmed from people that were there that the specific topic of me dating CG and her friendship with Tracy (but not mine) was a topic of discussion that day.

The phone call is now irrelevant. Of course, I did talk to you on the phone...that is not something I would forget. But since I have had it confirmed by parties that were there that the topic was discussed, as I suspected, I no longer need anyone to make inferences from a phone call about what you reasaonbly should have inferred. I know now that the issue was specifically discussed that day by you with the group.

So, point one:

I asked you when you first knew that CG and I were dating and that it might be causing a conflict of interest for me. You said you had suspicions but you didn't know until you saw Manny's pciture.

I knew that to be a lie based on the phone call, so I asked you about the phone call.

You swore up and down you didn't have a phone call, that I should check my phone records to prove it. I told you I did not talk to you on my phone but on CG's phone. That you and ask both spoke on the phone with CG is now confirmed. But even if you were right that you talked to CG and not to me, we now have a firsthand witness that has confirmed that it my relationship was not only discussed by discussed in the exact manner of speculation that led to the email from catnip alleging the precise 'talking point'.

In other words, you first formed the opinion about a conflict of interest in July, as I alleged. A week later catnip made that allegation to me (and I have alleged a direct connention that now has circumstantial evidence to support it).

You then brought this issue up again when you saw the picture of Manny's. You posted a link to it and presented to people that this was a eureka moment for you and that you now understood my conflict of interest.

I challenged your version that this was a new theory to you and you accused ME of lying.

Then you carried on and led other's to douby my credibility and even to sympathisize with you.

I am hoping that the person that has been lying to help you cover your story but who has now confessed to me their deceit both to me and to the community will be enough of a person to step forward and back up my words.

So far they have hidden behind the anonymity of private emails. They know who they are and they know how badly they have wronged me and they know what's right and what they should do to make it up to me and restore my credibility to the people that have been deceived, in part, by their efforts.

spiderleaf said...

I'm glad ask spoke on the phone with CG. Considering I didn't show up at the event until 5 mins before ask and curly left for the day I don't really think the subject of you guys dating was a hot topic. I asked if you were coming and everyone said no, that you and Chris weren't going to make it because CG's son had poison ivy. Then we took pictures and ask left.

Then AG left after we talked politics.

The only other person I hung out with there was supersoling and it was on his phone that I spoke briefly to CG as I told you many times.

Not sure what your problem is, but I haven't been lying. You accused me of telling catnip, I said I didn't. Then you started changing the subject into what I knew when. I told you I suspected, but did not know for sure until I saw the photo. This is true, no matter what you want to believe.

Whatever Martin, this is all quite juvenile of you and your own behaviour has led to all of this conflict. I wish you hadn't banned me as I had no interest in leaving the site, I liked the community, but you have and we're moving on.

Anonymous said...

Is that you, Patrick Fitzgerald?

booman said...

As for the rest of you, you had no way of knowing for sure who was telling the truth. I'm sad that my word was not taken at face value, but then I know that many of you were upset with me and didn't truly understand what this dispute was about.

For me, the issue of site administration and dealing with MT was a separate issue. For you, they were intertwined.

But I cannot allow someone to inpugn my character, make accusations about me that needlessly involve my girlfriend, lie to me, accuse me of lying, and get away with it.

That is why I have been obsessive about this.

Spiderleaf is not the only person that lied about me. She had help. She had someone throwing sand in your faces this whole time who knew for certain that my story has substantially true and that her story was completely false.

And they ought to step forward now and tell the full story.

Anonymous said...

spin, spin, little spider spin...

Martin, people are going to believe what they want to believe. Catnip, spiderleaf, and the unidentified emailer know the truth, and are apparently fine with leaving things the way they are at the expense of your integrity. Don't give them any more of it.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of damaging ones character or integrity,you seem determined to do it to yourself, by publically carrying on with this ridiculous, juvenile obsession over some she-said thing that happened months ago. How old ARE you, anyway?

catnip said...

I still think it was Rove who really outed Valerie Plame, but I guess we'll never really know.

And I'm pretty sure Marilyn Monroe was murdered.

And that the CIA killed Robert Kennedy.

catnip said...

He doesn't care about his integrity. He said as much yesterday in this thread (see above):

I have a thick skin so I can handle having a site dedicated to picking apart my posts, disparaging my character, and discussing my private life, but others cant even deal with the potential threat of that.

catnip said...

I'd like to welcome skippy's readers. Thanks for the link, skippy!

If you'd like to talk about the blogroll issue, which is a big concern of skippy's, please feel free to ignore the rest of the noise and leave a comment.

spiderleaf said...

From my deleted Meet Up Madness diary at BooMan (which I deleted due to fear of Tracy btw).

CookTing and I got a late start on the day and then got stuck in traffic on the GW bridge so we didn't make it to the festival until after 3pm... which meant that we didn't get to spend too much time with ask, curly and the kids or Arthur, but it was great spending as much time as we did with everyone!

...

Ask, Curly and the kids are also fantastic people and I really wish we'd had more time to hang out and get to know each other...


I am actually furious right now. Ask, Curly, Arthur and super were allegedly all talking about you guys dating all day and yet no one stepped in to correct the record when you claimed I was the "only" one who could have known?? And ask is claiming that I was part of that conversation when I spent barely 10mins with them as they were heading to the beach and dinner? And that he and I spoke to CG at the same time when both he and AG had already left for the day when I spoke to CG? I didn't have enough time to get to know them yet we had time to discuss your relationship in detail? Are you all fucking nuts?

This is disturbing Martin and even more so that you are repeating it instead of railing against them for talking about your relationship and then not correcting the record with me. That is total bullshit and I can't believe ask would stand behind those statements when he knows that I was there for such a tiny bit before they left.

This is the last thing I am saying on the matter Martin and if you keep polluting these threads with your smears against me I will delete your comments. Enough. The only other thing you are entitled to say on this site is "I'm sorry spider".

Anonymous said...

When do we all get the matching leather jackets with spiders on the back?

catnip said...

When do we all get the matching leather jackets with spiders on the back?

After you make 100 comments. Then it'll cost you $99 plus shipping and handling. Limited time offer.

spiderleaf said...

Martin, I've talked to your "deep throat" and there was no such "admission of guilt" or any nonsense you are claiming. And the record doesn't reflect it.

You need to get a grip buddy; you aren't Fitz and I'm not Libby. I'm just a freakin' Canuck who was a member of your community.

And I do want to say something. In retrospect I would not have posted the link to the picture with the comment about the balance of power being in her favour, but I did so because of what CG said in response to the vicious, abusive comments Tracy left. It was ridiculous and I felt the need to say something... a LOT of people have said they had the same thoughts as me. I just said it. I love supersoling and alohaleezy and I was APPALLED Tracy's behaviour would be tolerated by an admin. I would have apologized for that after I had calmed down had you dealt with the Tracy issue and not gone on a witch hunt against me... which continues to this day.

BooMan said...

That's great. It sucks to be deep throat. Caught in their own web of deceit they can't admit to you what they admitted to me without you feeling betrayed. They cannot admit it publicly and face everyone here, they already has to do deal with the deep sense of betrayal caused for me and CG. And they still haven't released from my pledge of confidentiality.

Sorry. This is not my fault. I can't do anything for Deep Throat. They screwed themselves and it hurts me to even contemplate how they are feeling.

I care about Deep Throat, still. And I am a forgiving person when someone comes clean. But you can't just come clean to me. You have to come clean to everyone. Then there can be forgiveness. And I will forgive you.

Dameocrat said...

Ok, I am stray roots. All I can say is that I think it was silly to call for new rules to redress the imbalances over there, given the fact that the real problem is inconsistent enforcement of existing ones. Note his new rules would give Tracy second third forth and fifth chances but Mariscat would get unilaterally banned.

Anyway, I don't hate BooMan even though I think there is inconsistent enforcement and there will continue to be, and I only had one spat with Tracy over Israel. I think those are part of life. I am used to those.

BooMan, DD linked to all those things in his own profile so this is really overblown. I don't know why you can't admit that. I really did see this as kossacks ganging up on Mariscat and I still do.

blueneck said...

BooMan:

As for the rest of you, you had no way of knowing for sure who was telling the truth. I'm sad that my word was not taken at face value, but then I know that many of you were upset with me and didn't truly understand what this dispute was about.

You spread the dispute over so many comments that I think that everybody knew exactly what the dispute was/is about. I sure did, much, much, much, much more than I ever wanted or cared to.

For me, the issue of site administration and dealing with MT was a separate issue. For you, they were intertwined.

That's precisely the problem, there, BooMan, that you never saw the issues as being one and the same. It was always about administering the site in a fair-minded way. It was about the fact that you would not enforce your own rules, even when broken repeatedly and egregiously, if the target was somone other than yourself. I still stand by my assertion that the only way anyone has ever been banned from your site is if they personally piss YOU off. And if someone on your site has a personal relationship with you that you deem special, you will go to any lengths to roll out the compassion in spite of the fact that they have pissed off multiple users in ways that are much more egregious in the eyes of a rational third party than the personal-to-you offenses that you banned or dismissed others for. That's really all fine and good, though, if you want everyone to view your blog in that light. That is, if you were to put it in the FAQ that way.

I noticed a comment or two over there shortly after the two big meta diaries that made the rec list scrolled off about how those of us who were trying to come up with rulez and procedurez were trying to take over your blog. I resented that because I think that most of us were trying to come up with a way to help you, not to take over, and the rulez themselves acknowledged your ultimate supremacy. I think that a lot of us understood that you were in a tough position and we wanted to give you a shield that you could hide behind if necessary in the future. What will you do in the future if one of your philly blogger friends comes on your site and slings shit at some of your loyal visitors, for example? Will it be more of the same? Will that be a separate issue from administering the site?Compassion for my good buddies and to hell with everybody else? If so, then I stand by my assertion that all references to 'community' should be stricken from the official site materials and that you should make it clear, in a Kos-like fashion, that what you say goes and to hell with what anyone else thinks. But to let people think that it is a community where everyone is expected to behave by two simple rules and then not enforce them fairly is to ask for more of the same problems in the future. This will be a problem no matter how many levels of banishment you institute. I don't mind playing any game if I know what the rules are. But when the rules change arbitrarily, or the ump is blind every time my team needs a rule enforced, it's not a game I want to be in.

I did just check the recent post you put up about a committee being a lot of trouble to deal with. I understand that. But I'm not buying the argument that it would cause more problems than it would solve. That's why it would have an uneven number of members. The rulez, where ambiguous, would be subject to a vote, and that's where ambiguity is resolved and that's the rulez. Any game with rulez is gonna have a bad call now and then or someone is gonna claim that all the calls go in favor of the other team, but a panel of refs usually gets it right in most games I've ever seen or played in. And in the blog-world, we have the benefit of total and complete 'instant replay' (unless a diary is taken down by the author). As it is, and as it will apparently remain, unnamed and generally unknown 'administrators' are supposed to patrol the site. And I suppose one of the administrators is someone who we all now know is your girlfriend. That seems to me like it's gonna make things worse, not better, as the personal rule enforcement thing goes.

But I cannot allow someone to inpugn my character, make accusations about me that needlessly involve my girlfriend, lie to me, accuse me of lying, and get away with it.

BooMan, your character, for me at least, has never been about any he said/ she said stuff. In spite of the fact that you took what was said very personally, most of us, me certainly, couldn't care less about it. I don't care whether your girlfriend has a relationship with someone who needs to be banned. I don't care whether you have a personal relationship with someone who needs to be banned. I don't care if someone lied to you about when they found out that someone had a personal relationship with someone who needs to be banned. Your character is impugned when you show obvious partiality and claim not to be partial. That's the crux of the issue, I think, even for some people who have not analyzed it all the way down to that. I get the feeling that you think if you convince everybody that she lied and you told the truth, you will be vindicated, but that's a mis-direction from the real problem of underlying unfairness, regardless of the claim about its origins and intricacies. If no unfairness was evident all allegations of unfairness would immediately be rendered totally ridiculous. And just to be perfectly clear, for me, it isn't about taking you at your word or not, it's just that I don't give a shit one way or the other. People are people and some will have differing memories, period. I have no idea if differing memories are a result of carelessness or maliciousness from either side, I just don't see it as a big issue, from out here in the blogoverse where I sit.

That is why I have been obsessive about this.

When you became obsessed, you embarked on a path that did more to destroy your own character than any accusation could have. When you look into the abyss, dude, the abyss looks back. Don't turn yourself into a monster to fight a monster, perceived or real. I would counsel you to ponder on that. If you hear nothing other than that out of all that I have cared to say, I hope that is it.

And finally, I think you outed your relationship when you shared it with whatever small group of bloggers you chose to. It is impossible for you to keep major developments in your life out of the blogosphere, because in a real way you ARE the blogosphere, you LIVE the blogosphere. You will ALWAYS have to deal with that if you intend to be a non-anonymous blogger. Accusations and intimations and insinuations about your personal motivations will always be 'fair game' whether they are truly fair or not. I foresee a time when you will spend hours of each day tracking down accusations and trying to disprove them if you choose to pursue that path.

P.S. whoever deep throat is, they are playing both sides against the middle and should not be trusted by either side, imo

P.P.S. DD outed himself, but no one should have outed him further. Imo, it's sort of like if a reporter calls a CIA agent and tells them the name of a covert operation and the details of it, the CIA agent should neither confirm nor deny the reporters assertions. Making a leak worse because it was already leaked doesn't make it a good thing to do. Having said that, I really don't know diddly-squat about DD and/or marisacat.

Anonymous said...

For the last time! Armando outed DD, while Mariscat was popping popcorn on her bunsen burner -- get it straight -- it's been months and months of watching this serial soap opera, As The Eyes Roll. Where's the Big Finish, already?

Yolanda

James said...

Good lord! I take a break from blogtopia (yes, skippy, I know), and what do I find but indications of serious frogpond paranoia.

Let's get something straight, Martin, et al.: there is no conspiracy going on here. No one here is out to get you, or out to get anyone else who frequents your blog. There may be some curt and abrasive criticism here, but big whoop. No one is being "threatened" by anyone here.

Take your own advice and let it go. It's really for your own good.

skippy said...

gee, i thought i left a comment here yesterday but i don't see it.

guess my puter punked out when i saved (again).

thanks for the link back atcha, catnip, and thanks for the nice welcome to my readers.

sjct said...

Ditto to everything Blueneck said.

Booman, I didn't leave the Pond because Spiderleaf was banned. I left because Tracy wasn't. You made a simple rule and didn't enforce it because the offender was a personal friend. That is not acceptable to me.

supersoling said...

Deepthroat here.

What a ridiculous bunch of useless and psychotic bullshit we have here.

Martin, I've given you the courtesy of replying to three of the four emails you've sent to me regarding this witchunt you've engaged in. And now you wanna target me too because I've been open with you and you think you have some kind of fucking evidence that I lied to you, lied to your community, this community, and protected another liar all along.
I call bullshit. In each reply I tried to redirect you back to the root of the problem. Your mishandling of the blowup last week. But no, you're attempting to blur the lines by making it about spiderleaf supposedly lying and noew me lying. And now, on top of all that, you offer your forgiveness if I come clean?! I don't need your goddamned forgiveness because there's nothing to be forgiven for. Yeah, originally back in July I was upset that you asked me whether I told Catnip about your private life. You say now that you only put a Catnip tag on the email so I suppose that now you'll say that I'm like a little kid who admitted to something by way of outrage before I knew what I was in trouble for. Whatever. You have a fucking angle for everything. In my last reply to you today I said that AG and ask weren't involved in any sniping at you about all of the bullshit with MT in July. Saying that doesn't mean that there was any sniping by anyone else. I just thought I'd get those two guys off your hit list too. But I see now that you think it implies that there was sniping. I'll tell you again, publically, that the subject came up, briefly, and that was all.

So now we come to this last blowout involving Tracy and me. You go after Spiderleaf for posting the picture, which btw I've told her I wasn't pleased about, and as I see you turning the subject off of your friend and how you utterly failed in your responsibility to protect all of your members, I decided to say that I couldn't remember if it was me or not, hoping you would back off of Spiderleaf. And as I've told you privately, I knew when I posted that that it would damage your trust in me. I did it for that reason, to protect spiderleaf, and because I began wondering if it was me, even though, as I've said, I couldn't imagine me talking to Catnip about anything like that. And just to clear my conscience I checked my email, three fucking times. There is no email, anywhere, that came from me to Catnip regarding any of that relationship stuff. Somehow though, you've apparently decided that my finding no email, or changing my story by saying that I couldn't remember, is one, somehow lying, and two, not only saying that spiderleaf was the one, but that I knew she was the one and protected her all along. I tried to protect her, yes. But I didn't lie about anything. Nor do I admit to any such thing in any of the replies I sent to you. And I've continued to say that I don't know who the fuck it is. Only Catnip and that person know. If it was me, there's no record of it anywhere. But I guess the only way I could prove that is to let you look at my email account.

Could it be spiderleaf? Yup. It could be, but I don't know that. I have no way to know that. Could it be Nanette? Yup. It could be, but I have no way to know it. Could it have been me? Yup, I guess it could, but there's no record of it and I've never talked to Catnip in my life. So, looks like it's not me.

So here's what I'll do. You are released from your pledge of privacy. Go ahead and publish whatever you have. Nowhere do I admit to lying to anyone or protecting someone I know to be lying. Even though a couple of people will have their feelings hurt by some things said in those replies, I'll risk that to once and for all get you to back the fuck off. Somehow though, I doubt you will.

My intentions in all of this have always been pure. I tried to remain friends with people on all sides of this. If that's evidence of playing the middle, then blindfold me now and start fucking firing. As far as I'm concerned you've abused my good nature and desire to see an end to this. That, and that alone is on you. Now, you'll excuse me while I go and beat my fucking head against a wall and rip myself a new one for ever getting involved in any online relationships and friendships. It damn sure isn't worth the heartache.

blueneck said...

Now that 'deep throat' has outed himself, I retract my statement that he was playing both sides against the middle, because I'm totally confident super wouldn't do that. period.

scribe said...

Oh super, sometimes it ends up like this, and when it does, it truly bites hard. I've been there too. People just always aren't as they appear to be when we become attached to them.

It's pretty hard for me to believe the behaviors I'm seeing from Martin too. I never guessed he'd go this far off the rails.

But don't you dare beat your head or rip at any part of yourself on this one, because you know what? It really isn't about you at all. Or Spider, or anyone else here, not really.

It's about what whatever the hell is going on with Boo, and there's not one damned thing any of us can do about that, expect protect ourselves from the effects of it.

We left. We moved on. He followed and chose to keep battering at this here. He isn't listening to anything anyone is saying.

I honestly don't know anything that can make this insane thing stop but refusing to respond to any of it at all. And that is very very hard to do, I know.

Breathe, buddy, breath.

alohaleezy said...

Damn folks...this is absurd. Martin....let it go bud. I tried over and over again to wish you well and just move on. You don't want to do that for whatever reason. I will not post it here folks but again I came home to an email from Martin, Another accounting of his side of the story. It was long and just resiterated all he said here and at his own site.

I have to tall you Martin, I too did not leave because you banned Spider but because you didn't ban Tracy. Taht woman not only berated two of your longterm poster but she went over to Dkos to air the dirty laundry, leaving so much out and garnering sympathy from those that don't really know the history.Just read your "new rules" pretty ridiculous imho. Someone can call someone a fucking pig, I hope you fucking die or you are a pyscho spoiled bitch four times before they are banned? Glad I left. This will be the last I post here too. Too much bad energy.